The all new 1 Corinthians 14:34, 35 Church

The all new 1 Corinthians 14:34, 35 Church

Cheryl_Schatz_men_are_better

I don’t do “humor” too much on this blog, although I love humor and I love to laugh.  The issue of women in ministry is normally a serious one but I couldn’t resist this funny cover that comes from my friend Pastor Jon Zens.  Pastor Jon’s web site is here and he has written a good article on 1 Timothy 2:11-15 here called Are the sister free to function? There is also an answer to whether a woman is to be silent in the church here called A discussion on silent women.  Pastor Jon has been very support of the function of women in the church using their God-given gifts.  He has been a personal encouragement to me and he recommends my DVD set to many people.

Jon also has a new video clip on the front page of his web site revealing his views that the church should not have a clergy class but that elders and pastors are a part of the body of Christ and not a special “class” of believers.

16 thoughts on “The all new 1 Corinthians 14:34, 35 Church

  1. I have really learned a lot from Jon Zen’s articles on his web site, searchingtogether. You may want to provide a link to this journal.

  2. What a coincidence! 🙂
    Perhaps you would want to post on <a href=”http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/12/01/women-in-high-places/”>Mart DeHaan (of Radio Bible Class) blog</a> where he asks:

    <i>”Have cultural changes trumped the social order of the Bible? Or have we in some way misunderstood the intent and wisdom the Apostle Paul when he wrote, “God is not the author of confusion but of peace…Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says” (1Cor 14:33-34).”</i>

  3. Sorry about my HTML formatting.  You have such a handy new editor that does all that for us! 🙂  Here, I fixed it for easier reading:
     
    What a coincidence!
    Perhaps you would want to post on Mart DeHaan (of Radio Bible Class) blog where he asks:
    ”Have cultural changes trumped the social order of the Bible? Or have we in some way misunderstood the intent and wisdom the Apostle Paul when he wrote, “God is not the author of confusion but of peace…Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says” (1Cor 14:33-34).”

  4. that’s a funny cartoon.  it reveals the disconnect between the gospel and the community that is supposed to be formed by the gospel. 

    The gospel has implications not just for heaven and eternal life but for how the new community formed by Christ is to function.  I think Paul, Peter and the disciples were applying the gospel when household codes came up for discussion.  i don’t believe the codes are normative but the application for the gospel to a specific cultural mindset. 

  5. I thought the cover was hilarious.  I just heard from Jon Zens today and he is sending me the magazine.  I am going to take Lin’s suggestion and put some links into my post.  Pastor Jon Zens has done some very good work on the hard passages of scripture and his material deserves to be read.  He is also a very big supporter of my ministry and the hard work I have put in on the hard passages of scripture.  He is one of the ones who buys our WIM DVDs in bulk and sells them in his bookstore.  I praise God for godly men who are willing to stand up and be counted.

  6. Sometimes there are those who try to post on my blog with the thought to hijack my blog for their own purpose and their own agenda.  This is one of the reasons why I have moderation for new posters.  It is extremely rare that I do not allow a new person’s post to go through.  There have been a couple of people who have come to my blog in the past who have been extremely abusive and whose comments are designed to inflict as much pain as they can.  I can not in all good conscience allow someone to abuse others with my approval.  I also will not allow the hijacking of my blog for issues completely unrelated to the purpose of my blog.  If a person wants to come here and post rants against other Christians or issues that have nothing to do with women in ministry or any of the topics that we are discussing, I suggest that they go elsewhere to find a platform to be heard.  I will not be hijacked in my own “home”.

  7. I want to make it clear that posters that I have allowed to post on my blog are not part of my concern.  I have a brand new poster who has not gone past my moderation who is out of order.  I will not be posting their comments nor will I publicly (on this blog) be addressing their issues against other Christians.  This is not the place for this.  I am not interested in engaging those who specialize in threatening law suits against other Christians in order to silence their criticism.  When honest criticism is “answered” by threatening lawsuits and having someone’s biblical critique shut down by their service provider, I will not be a part of this.  I ask you to go and deal biblically with those whom you find offensive and please leave me alone.

  8. Cheryl, this problem you mention reminds me of Acts 18:17, where a mob who couldn’t get an official to arrest Paul turned on another person and beat them in front of him, but he didn’t let it sway him.

    Today’s Christian community seems obsessed with control and chains of command. That is why they think blog owners should “own” their readers, and be held responsible for every site or article they link to. They see no difference between a homeowner’s right to control the atmosphere of their own home and their being responsible for the entire lives of the your visitors in their own homes as well.

    But it does amount to an important admission: they know you are influential, and that your influence is freeing slaves. This they cannot endure, because they themselves are enslaved to mere humans and loyal to them above even Christ, and to their teachings above scripture. By showing strong opposition to them and not allowing their rage to run amok in your blog, you serve them notice that even the nicest Christians can and must show backbone in the face of evil.

    U go girl!

    (PS: I “just happened” to have been prompted to take a fresh look at my salvation article, and would be honored to hear your assessment when you have a moment. It’s now in two parts: one for the basic gospel, and another to elaborate on it as relating to various theories including predestination.)

  9. It is not possible to mitigate the hurtful discrimination inherent in this bit of scipture (1 Corinthians 14:34), but really – women recognize “shut up” when we hear it – and it echos two thousand years later very clearly.

  10. TC Smythe,

    Actually it is possible to mitigate 1 Cor. 14:34 when one understands the source of this “law”.  Yes, women do indeed recognize “shut up” when it is said.  The question must then be asked – who said it?  If it is said by Paul, then he contradicts himself in verse 36.  If the Corinthians are the ones who said it, then Paul rightfully contradicts their wrong view in verse 36.  Paul’s inspired words very clearly show that verse 36 contradicts the “law” given in verses 34 & 35.  Praise God that he tells those would would tell women to “shut up”, that these ones themselves need to be ignored (aka “shut up”).  God has spoken.  Many are the women who publish the good news (Psalms 68:11).

  11. Ok – I also seek to understand the ‘source’ of this law – but even in your response you fail to identify it. You bring two interpretations.  Which is it? It can’t be both.

  12. It is the so-called Oral Law of the Pharisees as later recorded in the Mishnah that said women are to shut up.

  13. TC Smythe,

    The quoted “law” is the oral law as Don said.  It is not God’s law but the tradition of men.  I don’t bring two interpretations and if you think I do, you will have to show me where I do that.  Have a look at my previous articles on 1 Cor. 14.  See especially http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/09/24/forbid-not/

    The letter written to Paul that prompted Paul to write the book of 1 Corinthians is responded to throughout the book and 1 Cor. 14:34, 35 is attributed as a quote from that letter and verse 36 is Paul’s response to the quote which is a very strong contradiction to the two verses that precede it.

    I hope this helps!

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