Please welcome Diane Sellner
Feb 28th, 2008 by Cheryl
Breaking news first!!! The radio station that sells air time to Matt Slick’s Faith and Reason radio show has confirmed the dates and times of the public airing of my 4 DVD series “Women in Ministry Silenced or Set Free?” This is free air time because of the misrepresentation of my view by Matt Slick. My family radio station in Boise, Idaho has been gracious enough to give me air time to allow my view to be heard without misrepresentation. Here are the air times in Boise Idaho - all are Mountain time. The station is presenting the DVDs on BOTH their AM and FM stations, praise the Lord!
You can listen live to the audio from my 4 DVD set at the following link. The listen button is at the top right hand side and it will allow you to pick the radio station that you want to listen to for the times listed below. The link is http://www.myfamilyradio.com/cms/index.php Remember the times are Mountain Time and if you are listening at Eastern time you need to add two hours so instead of 12 noon it will be 2 pm and instead of 4 pm it will be 6 pm.
KBXL 94.1 FM
- Saturday March 8, 2008 at 12 noon - segment one
- Saturday March 15, 2008 at 12 noon - segment two
- Saturday March 22, 2008 at 12 noon - segment three
- Saturday March 29, 2008 at 12 noon - segment four
KSPD 790 AM
- Saturday March 8, 2008 at 4 pm - segment one
- Saturday March 15, 2008 at 4 pm - segment two
- Saturday March 22, 2008 at 4 pm - segment three
- Saturday March 29, 2008 at 4 pm - segment four
My next post has been delayed because of my work on the Trinity DVD, however I have been advised that Diane Sellner from CARM thinks that she has an answer to 1 Timothy 2:15, regarding who is the “she” and who are the “they” that will disprove my exegesis and also a proof that the animals were not created after Adam, disproving my exegesis that Adam saw some of God’s acts of creation.
I welcome Diane trying to answer me. I have created this post so that it will be a safe place for her to come and share with us her answers. Now I know that some of you have been hurt by Diane’s harsh attitude on CARM, but I ask that you refrain from any unkind or unChristian attitude towards her on this post. While I do not agree with Diane’s public attitude towards others, I do not want her to find this kind of attitude on this post. This is an opportunity for any of you who have been hurt to show her that a Christian attitude is alive and well on this blog. I have given Diane an invitation to post her answers here so that it will be a safe environment for both of us.
Now I know that Diane may not feel safe in the beginning because she is used to only being around strong complementarians who support her strong critical “style”. But this safe environment may be just what Diane needs to get outside the environment that surrounds CARM. Please welcome Diane, remember that I will personally put your posts under moderation if there is any kind of personal attack or unChrist-like behavior.
If you are a Christian, then Jesus lives in you. The true test is not how you treat others when they treat you well, but how you treat others who have been less than kind to you. This is the safe environment that I welcome Diane to. Diane, let’s discuss your “correction” and I challenge you to show me where I am wrong. Then be prepared for a very strong challenge. The world is watching, Diane. You said this on CARM’s discussion board didn’t you? I am ready and willing to “debate” this issue with you in a respectful dialog-kind of way. Diane, jump on in, the water’s fine and there are no “sharks” in this water.
February 28th, 2008 at 1:58 am
I welcome you Diane.
I am looking forward to a respectful discussion. We could all learn from eachother when we listen and have respect. Surely every member of the body of Christ, you and me has something to give! So we can all benefit from eachother.
Many Blessings
February 28th, 2008 at 2:49 am
Great! I just want to say that you are more than welcome Diane. And I look forward to see your interpretation of scripture. May Christ Jesus bless you richly!
February 28th, 2008 at 9:48 am
Uh… my calendar shows those radio broadcast dates to be Sundays. Wazzup with that?
February 28th, 2008 at 10:30 am
Paula,
Hmmm…you are right. I will fix the dates. I was told Saturday and the dates are the ones given me. I am pretty sure it should be Saturday and I have an email in to clarify the wrong dates. I will fix the dates in advance and if it turns out that it should be Sunday and not Saturday as I was told, I will post that correction. However I think it is just a matter of wrong dates because I was specifically told it would be Saturdays.
February 28th, 2008 at 11:10 am
Hello Diane….. you don’t know me nor I you, but I welcome you here to say whatever is on your mind. You will be received graciously even if disagreed with.
February 28th, 2008 at 11:38 am
OK, you lost me…
How is that a challenge?
Proof that the animals were not created after Adam:
Genesis 1:20-28
“Then God said…” is repeated throughout Genesis 1 and the sequence of creation is listed in chronological order “and it was evening and it was morning the first, second, third… day”. Mankind is last.
February 28th, 2008 at 12:04 pm
Hi Charis,
I guess you haven’t seen the proof from my DVD series yet. The Biblical Hebrew and Discourse Linguistics book by Robert D. Bergen proves that the precise Hebrew grammar in Genesis 2 shows that there were animals also created after Adam - a kind of “second act” of creation. Just as God created mankind in “two acts” with the male created first and then the female created later from his own body, so the grammar from Genesis 2 shows a sequential account of animals and birds created after Adam was created. The Garden of Eden is also created after Adam was created.
What education did Adam have in seeing the Creator forming the creation? We know for sure that Adam had evough evidence to know that God was the only one who could be God and Adam was not deceived. There is more information on this blog - just check under Genesis. Or better yet see the entire exegesis in context with the Hebrew evidence brought out in my DVD set. I just got another email this morning from a very large Christian organization in the US who specializes in teaching the bible and the reviewer said about my DVD set “I thought it was very thought provoking. You built your case well for each Scripture that deals with the most controversial passages that are used today…There are many facts that you carefully brought to light that I will consider in my continued study of this topic and in my communication with others.”
February 28th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
In general, Christians have been led astray by translations for centuries. Some are better than others, but even the newer ones deliberately change things like “the man was driven out of the garden” to “they were driven out”, “formed” to “had formed”, “authority over her own head” to “a sign of authority over her head”, etc. No major, blatant alterations but subtle ones that have big influence.
February 28th, 2008 at 4:12 pm
Paula,
Yes you are right in that no translation is perfect but some are better than others. This is why I make a habit of reading with an interlinear translation and looking each word up to understand the nuances that the English may miss with a one Greek word to one English word translation.
By the way I just heard back from the radio station and the DVDs will be shown on Saturday so the correction I made is now correct. Yeah!
February 28th, 2008 at 8:20 pm
Well everyone apparently Diane Sellner has decided not to join us. This is what she publicly posted regarding not even trying to reason through the issue with me:
It is interesting that Diane would not venture off of the discussion board that she rules over. I made it as safe as I could here on this blog. Perhaps that was the problem. I made it too safe and she wouldn’t be able to control me here or attack me as a heretic or she would be seen to be unkind and judgmental. Yet I find it very odd that she makes claims that I am the one unwilling to be cross examined. That is simply not true. I have been more than open and I was the one who wanted a third radio dialog with Matt and he is the one who would not engage. I was the one who created a safe place for us to talk and Diane is the one has refused to cooperate.
I am very sad that Diane would not come to this safe place. It would have been a great discussion. It appears that it is easier to claim a victory when she refuses to even open the egalitarian discussion board to the world. Opening it for the world to see would have provided an accountability that would have stifled a lot of the abuse and name-calling that Diane heaps on those who do not agree with her. I made it very clear that this kind of abuse is not the Christian way as it is not the “way of the Master”.
It is so easy to hide behind a private board and not be accountable for your words. Diane could have come here and we would have given her some accountability and a taste of true Christian unity.
Diane I know you are reading this. You have made it very clear that either you or your “people” regularly visit my site and read the posts and the comments. I ask you to reconsider the offer. When you hide and do not come out unless you can control people by threatening them with removal from the discussion board, you create an environment that is not healthy. A healthy environment is one that has accountability. A healthy environment is not one where gracious dissenters are removed and professionals mockers are encouraged.
You have said that my view of the Trinity requires that “God have mercy” on me. May I suggest, Diane that the Trinity is a doctrine that elevates Jesus and does not make him less in any way than the Father. There is no such thing as too high an opinion of Jesus or giving him too much glory or too much praise. The truth of the Trinity is not an elevated Father and a Son who will never grow up to be equal in will to his Father. There is only one will in the Trinity not a ruler who takes authority over one who never uses his own will. When you say that my elevation of Jesus to his proper place in the Godhead should make God have mercy on me, you prove that that you are the one who is divisive. Diane, I beg you to repent and turn from this ungodly division.
When you are willing to talk here, I will be too.
February 28th, 2008 at 10:02 pm
Cheryl, am I just reading this wrong, or has Diane threatened you:
“I think this has come to an end to any attempts to reason with you on this forum, but it is not over yet, there will be more LATER.”
I find that very, very troubling. Do you know what she’s claiming there will be more of later?
If you don’t wish to respond, I understand. I’m simply concerned for you.
February 28th, 2008 at 10:41 pm
Hi Psalmist,
Thank you so much for your concern! It isn’t anything to worry about. Matt has said that he is going to deal with me and all my arguments on the women’s issue and he will post them on his web site. I am sorry, but I am not holding my breath. I have already seen his arguments because he speaks through Diane and there is nothing there of any value that isn’t easily refuted.
So writing against my arguments is how they are doing to deal with me later. Also because my DVDs are being premiered on the station that hosts Matt’s own program, they are very mad that I am getting free air time without interruption and without their being able to say what a heretic I am. Diane has hinted that they might just buy some extra air time and try to expose my “false” teaching. I am not holding my breath. In fact it will probably just bring more people around to see what the fuss is all about and it will backfire once again on them by giving more exposure to my DVDs. So I say, go ahead, make my day!
To be truthful I find it somewhat amusing. Matt hates the fact that I teach with authority and so he has to call me names and say bad things about me on his radio show. But all he has done by misrepresenting me and calling me names is created a way for me to get the message out because of his own actions. So what he meant for evil, God meant for good. What a good God we serve, eh?
So now Matt appears to be afraid even to mention my name anymore on his radio program. I am now “some people” teach… and Diane is doing the same thing by calling me something like “that person”. I don’t know what they are afraid of. Okay, I do know what they are afraid of. They don’t know what I will do next! I am a persistent person. I didn’t get to be an apologist reaching many people in the cults for Christ because I give up easily. I know that bugs them, but hey, an apologist has to do what she has to do. You know if they just did this debating thing in a Christian way and without all the attacks, it could be fun for all of us and a growing and maturing time and they might actually learn something.
So thanks for the concern Psalmist! I love you for that!!
February 28th, 2008 at 10:47 pm
You know, this is the second time this week that I’ve read the “argument” that egalitarians (or a specific egalitarian) “can’t be reasoned with.”
It would be a refreshing change if the people who make such a charge, were to try true reasoning, instead of stringing together various logical fallacies and just plain nasty name-calling and then “giving up” because we keep insisting on the truth. You’re so right, that if people remembered and reflected the Name they bear when they debate, it could be fruitful instead of destructive.
I am glad you’re OK with the “later” thing and that I was just being hyper-concerned about the comment. Thanks for addressing my concern and for understanding my motivation in asking.
Oh, and thanks for being you! What a treasure you are!
February 28th, 2008 at 10:52 pm
Psalmist,
What warm words! Thank you a BIG bunch. I needed that today. I can only be a “heretic” so long before I need a warm fuzzy.
February 28th, 2008 at 11:14 pm
Glad to, Cheryl.
And I know where you’re coming from, at least a little bit. I finally had my fill of being accused of being a “she-wolf” and a “false teacher” today.
Please, if you do grow weary in doing good, Cheryl, just rest up a bit and come back soon. The body of Christ needs what you alone can offer.
February 28th, 2008 at 11:54 pm
Alot in the last few posts make me feel really good guys, er gals, the concern, love, and care that you have for eachother that showed through them.
Syber hugs! You both made my night!!!
February 29th, 2008 at 6:32 am
Cheryl,
I’m surprised they don’t call you the heretic whore, as Phillip of Spain once referred to Elizabeth the first, in the dim past.
Maybe Slick is building his own armada of sorts (metaphor) to sail against you, who knows?
Their’s will be a legacy of tyranny and despotism; yours will be remembered as one of freedom and dignity for all.
February 29th, 2008 at 7:12 am
What is it with those people? Why are they so obsessed with silencing and defaming fellow believers over “roles” and “order” they themselves made up? What kind of Christians make it the focus of their “ministry” (CBMW for example) to beat half the Body of Christ into submission to the other half? Why are they so terrified of equality?
Pride. Control. Domination. Preeminence.
Has anyone told them that these are **not** the fruit of the Spirit??
February 29th, 2008 at 9:04 am
Do you see a pattern here? Diane will not come here. Kamilla will not come here. These women would do well to remember Romans 8:31, “If God is for us, who can be against us?” If they really do speak God’s truth, and their guiding motive is to share that truth in love, they have nothing to fear from coming here. Funny how when you ask people to become accountable for their words and behavior, they scurry away to their own little kingdoms where they can continue to disrespect others without having to take responsibility for it.
February 29th, 2008 at 9:50 am
Thanks guys for all your comments!
Light,
I think your name says it all. We ask people to come into the light. We have made a safe place here for someone to be accountable for their words yet not be attacked. Yet if someone’s works is evil they do not want to come into the light because then they are exposed. Jesus said in John 3:19-21:
“This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deed will be exposed. But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”