![\"Adam's](\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-content\/uploads\/2009\/04\/blame5.jpg?resize=286%2C309&ssl=1\" "\\"Adam's")
<\/p>\n<\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
This is the seventh in a series of simulated interviews with the Apostle Paul taken from the position of what he might say if we could transport Paul from the New Testament account through a time tunnel into our present day.<\/p>\n
Doug, a strong complementarian is questioning Paul on why the man alone brought sin into the world.\u00a0 Let\u2019s listen in.\u00a0 (Links to the previous interviews are at the bottom of this post.)<\/p>\n
Paul:<\/span> <\/strong>Grace and peace brother Doug.\u00a0 Are you ready for a discussion on original sin?<\/p>\n Doug:<\/span><\/strong> I am very ready.\u00a0 You have been speaking about women\u2019s equality in spiritual matters, but I think you are going to have problems being consistent because of the fact that the male who was the only one who brought sin into the world.\u00a0 Surely this proves that men are the only ones to lead in spiritual matters.<\/p>\n Paul:<\/span> <\/strong> How do you connect spiritual privilege to males by the act of one man\u2019s sin?<\/p>\n Doug:<\/span><\/strong> It is so clear.\u00a0 Eve sinned first but God credited only the male with bringing sin into the world.\u00a0 This proves the spiritual value of the male.<\/p>\n Paul:<\/span> <\/strong> Hold on there Doug.\u00a0 It doesn\u2019t prove the spiritual value<\/strong><\/em> of the male<\/strong><\/em>.\u00a0 It proves the spiritual value of the sin<\/strong><\/em> that Adam committed against God.<\/p>\n Doug:<\/span><\/strong> I don\u2019t think so.\u00a0 Who did God come to first after they ate the fruit?\u00a0 This proves that the male had a higher place in God\u2019s eyes as the federal head of the human race.\u00a0 R.C. Sproul says:<\/p>\n This view teaches that Adam acted as a representative of the entire human race\u2026Adam was the first human being created. He stands at the head of the human race. He was placed in the garden to act not only for himself but for all of his future descendents. Just as a federal government has a chief spokesman who is the head of the nation, so Adam was the federal head of mankind.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n I would think that if only Adam stood as the \u201chead\u201d of the human race and only Adam brought sin into the world even though Eve sinned first, then we can understand that God places a much higher worth on men as far as spiritual leadership goes.<\/p>\n Paul:<\/span> <\/strong> Brother Doug, this is male pride, my friend.\u00a0 I used to be there myself before I came to Christ.<\/p>\n Doug:<\/span><\/strong> We are talking about a real scholar of the bible here.\u00a0 You aren\u2019t saying that R.C. Sproul is wrong, are you?<\/p>\n Paul:<\/span> <\/strong>Let\u2019s test him by God\u2019s word.\u00a0\u00a0 The answer to the questions will determine the validity of the argument.\u00a0 Did Adam act as a representative for Eve when he made the choice to eat the fruit?\u00a0 When Adam fell did Eve fall too?\u00a0 Did Adam ever act as her representative after the fall?\u00a0 And lastly did Adam speak to God on Eve\u2019s behalf?<\/p>\n Doug:<\/span><\/strong> Adam didn\u2019t act as a representative for Eve when sin happened.\u00a0 But Eve sinned first.\u00a0 That was my point.\u00a0 Eve sinned first, yet Adam got blamed first and he alone brought sin into the world.\u00a0 That doesn\u2019t make me guilty of\u00a0 male pride.\u00a0 That makes me faithful to the scriptures.<\/p>\n Paul:<\/span> <\/strong>No it isn\u2019t faithful to the scriptures at all.\u00a0 It is reading into the scriptures by your \u201cmale pride\u201d glasses.<\/p>\n Doug:<\/span><\/strong> How can you dare talk to me that way?<\/p>\n Paul:<\/span> <\/strong>I speak to what I know.\u00a0 I was the biggest sinner and part of that sin was the pride that I had as a male and as a Jew and as a Pharisee.\u00a0 We Pharisees were the very best at judging everyone else as lower than ourselves.\u00a0 I understand how you think, but you do not know the scriptures in this matter, neither do you know the justice and grace of God.<\/p>\n Doug:<\/span><\/strong> Did you come here to insult me today?<\/p>\n Paul:<\/span> <\/strong>No.\u00a0 I came to speak into your life in an area that I know is a source of pride for you.\u00a0 You aren\u2019t going to like what I have to say today, but I promise you if you listen to me with open ears, God can prick your heart with sorrow for an area of pride that has become a stumbling block for you.<\/p>\n Doug:<\/span><\/strong> I have listened to you so far, but today you are starting to tick me off.<\/p>\n Paul:<\/span> <\/strong>Give me just today and if I haven\u2019t made my point, then you don\u2019t need to see my face again.<\/p>\n Doug:<\/span><\/strong> (mumbling to himself and shifting his weight from one foot to another in obvious discomfort)\u00a0 Okay, you have one chance to redeem yourself.\u00a0 What do you have to say?<\/p>\n Paul:<\/span> <\/strong>The teaching that Adam acted in a representative fashion for all<\/strong><\/em> of humanity is not true.\u00a0 Eve is part of that humanity.\u00a0 Adam didn\u2019t act as a representative for Eve.\u00a0 Adam didn\u2019t taint her with his sin.\u00a0 Did God call Adam to account for Eve\u2019s sin?<\/p>\n Doug:<\/span><\/strong> No, not at all.\u00a0 God approached both Adam and Eve and each one was called to account for what they did.\u00a0 But Adam must have been special because sin came into the world only through him.\u00a0 You<\/strong><\/em> are the one who wrote that in scripture!<\/p>\n Paul:<\/span> <\/strong>Brother Doug, Adam<\/strong><\/em> was not special.\u00a0 Adam\u2019s sin<\/strong><\/em> was special.<\/p>\n Doug:<\/span><\/strong> How could Adam\u2019s sin have been any different than Eve\u2019s sin?\u00a0 They both ate the fruit and they both broke God\u2019s commandment.<\/p>\n Paul:<\/span> <\/strong>It is time that we have a good look at the scriptures.\u00a0 Let\u2019s look at what I wrote about Adam and Eve and also what God had to say about Adam\u2019s sin.\u00a0 First of all let\u2019s note that sin did indeed come through one man just as I wrote in Romans:<\/p>\n Romans 5:12\u00a0 Therefore, just as through one man<\/strong> sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned\u2013<\/p><\/blockquote>\n When I wrote the book of Romans, I compared the first Adam who brought sin into the world and the last Adam who was Jesus Christ and who as the Mesasiah brought freedom from sin.\u00a0 I also made note that the sin of Adam was not like<\/strong><\/em> the sin of many others.<\/p>\n Romans 5:14\u00a0 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam<\/strong><\/em>, who is a type of Him who was to come.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n Yet Adam\u2019s sin was like<\/strong><\/em> the sin of some.\u00a0 Those who dealt treacherously against God were likened to Adam.<\/p>\n Hosea 6:7\u00a0 But like Adam<\/strong><\/em> they have transgressed the covenant<\/strong><\/em>; There they have dealt treacherously against Me<\/strong><\/em>.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n God calls Adam\u2019s sin a treacherous act.\u00a0 The Hebrew word means treacherous, unfaithful, deceitful.\u00a0 It isn\u2019t the fact that Adam was male that caused God to call his act treacherous.\u00a0 It is what Adam did<\/strong><\/em>.<\/p>\n Doug:<\/span><\/strong> I really don\u2019t see any difference between Adam\u2019s sin and Eve\u2019s sin.\u00a0 She wasn\u2019t innocent in the fall.<\/p>\n Paul:<\/span> <\/strong> Well, let us look at the scripture to see how God sees Eve\u2019s sin as different from Adam\u2019s sin.\u00a0 There are only two scriptures in the New Testament that refer to Eve and I wrote them both.<\/p>\n 2 Corinthians 11:3\u00a0 But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived<\/strong> Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray<\/strong> from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n The only two references to Eve are those that discuss deception<\/strong><\/em>.\u00a0 Do you see that Eve was the recipient of deception?\u00a0 Do you see that Eve was led astray from a simple and pure devotion to God?<\/p>\n Doug:<\/span><\/strong> Okay, I can grant that Eve was deceived, but I don\u2019t see how deception is an excuse for sin.<\/p>\n Paul:<\/span> <\/strong> It isn\u2019t an excuse for sin, but it does show a difference in the heart attitude.\u00a0 God is the one who looks on the heart.\u00a0 It also provided an opportunity<\/strong><\/em> for God to step in and rescue.\u00a0 It is a God-ordained opportunity to give grace and mercy instead of condemnation.<\/p>\n Let me tell you my story.\u00a0 You see, brother Doug, I was working hard for God before I came to Christ.\u00a0 At least that is how I saw myself.\u00a0 No one came close to the works that I did for God.\u00a0 I was a Pharisee of Pharisees and I was doing everything right and \u201cby the book\u201d.\u00a0 I had a passion for God that was unmatched.\u00a0 In my passion I was on a mission to destroy all<\/strong><\/em> of God\u2019s enemies especially those who were betraying God by following this man named Jesus.\u00a0 I fancied myself just like David who had a hatred for God\u2019s enemies.\u00a0 David said:<\/p>\n Psalm 139:21\u00a0 Do I not hate those who hate You, O LORD? And do I not loathe those who rise up against You? It wasn\u2019t a pretty picture now that I look back on my actions.\u00a0 Look at what the book of Acts says about me as the persecutor of the church:<\/p>\n Acts 8:3\u00a0 But Saul began ravaging the church<\/strong>, entering house after house, and dragging off men and women, he would put them in prison.<\/p>\n Acts 9:1\u00a0 Now Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord<\/strong>, went to the high priest, I attacked the church believing that what I was doing was sanctioned by God and it was the right thing to do.\u00a0 I believed I was being faithful to Almighty God, the one I served.\u00a0 Nobody could stand in my way\u2026but Jesus did.\u00a0 He turned my world upside down.<\/p>\n On that road to Damascus I met Him and my pride in my own self-righteousness was exposed.\u00a0 I came face to face with the realization that He was everything that I denied He was and because I came against His own people, the sheep of His pasture, He was the ultimate one that I was persecuting.<\/p>\n Acts 9:3\u00a0 As he was traveling, it happened that he was approaching Damascus, and suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him; I was a broken man that day.\u00a0 I could not believe that I had been so blind.\u00a0 I came to faith in Christ that day understanding that the death Jesus experienced as a man was for me and my sin.\u00a0 When He forgave me, He changed my heart so that I no longer saw myself as a self-appointed watchman set up to defend God with my murderous actions.\u00a0 Instead I saw that I had been actually acting as a roadblock to God.<\/p>\n There I was on the road to Damascus, my mind filled with religious vengeance for Christians who I saw as God\u2019s enemies and I was being exposed as a roadblock to God\u2019s work!\u00a0 It broke my pride and it softened my heart.\u00a0 No longer did I hate the church.\u00a0 God in His wonderful grace and mercy set me up as the foremost apologist to the church and He explained to me why I found mercy.<\/p>\n 1 Timothy 1:12\u00a0 I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has strengthened me, because He considered me faithful, putting me into service, I used the word \u201cbecause\u201d as it is a marker of causality.\u00a0 I received mercy because<\/strong><\/em> God was able to step into my insolent life as an aggressor against God, for the reason that I did my actions against God ignorantly and in unbelief.\u00a0 I did what I did against the church because I was deceived and I believed that what I was doing was a righteous and holy thing.<\/p>\n When I came to understand how fully I had been deceived, I received a heart of love for those who are also in the place of deception just like I was.\u00a0 Eve was like me in a lot of ways.\u00a0 She thought she knew all about God but she became completely deceived about God\u2019s character and what her rights were.\u00a0 When she believed the lies that the serpent told her, she fell deeply into deception because of his craftiness.\u00a0 It was a\u00a0 treacherous act that the serpent did by deceiving Eve.\u00a0 And Eve wasn\u2019t just a little deceived.\u00a0 She was fully deceived<\/strong><\/em> and in that state of deception she believed that she was doing what was right in offering her new-found truth to her husband.\u00a0 She gave of the fruit to him believing that she was helping him.<\/p>\n God is the one who looks at the heart and He alone decides who He will give mercy to.\u00a0 When Eve understood that she had been duped into eating the fruit, her eyes were opened.\u00a0 And when she confessed her sin to God, God gave her mercy and He brought grace through her.<\/p>\n Doug:<\/span><\/strong> What do you mean?\u00a0 How did God bring grace through Eve?<\/p>\n Paul:<\/span> <\/strong> God gave the Messiah to mankind as an antidote for our sin. God also used the treacherous act against the first woman as an entrance to provide mercy for all of us.\u00a0 God brought the Savior through the very first deceived person.\u00a0 God brought grace through Eve alone<\/strong><\/em>.\u00a0 It was only her seed<\/em><\/strong> that would bring the Messiah.\u00a0 And it was only Adam who brought the curse into the world.\u00a0 Do you believe that God was unfair to differentiate between sin committed while blinded with deception and sin committed with full knowledge of the truth and with no blinding by deception?<\/p>\n Doug:<\/span><\/strong> But didn\u2019t both of them receive the sentence of death?<\/p>\n Paul:<\/span> <\/strong> God said that if they ate the fruit they would die.\u00a0 The result of eating the fruit brought death.\u00a0 However the punishment beyond death was different.\u00a0 Adam\u2019s act of treachery brought a curse on the earth. The serpent\u2019s deception caused the animals to be cursed and the man\u2019s treachery caused the earth to be cursed.\u00a0 God said \u2018because you did this, this result will occur\u2019.\u00a0 But God did not bring an additional punishment from the woman\u2019s sin.\u00a0 God did not identify a treachery on her part.<\/p>\n Doug:<\/span><\/strong> So what?\u00a0 So the woman sinned after she was deceived.\u00a0 This appears to be why you said that only men are to have the spiritual lead.\u00a0 Women are easily deceived.<\/p>\n Paul:<\/span> <\/strong>There you go again with your male pride.\u00a0 It is not true that women are more easily deceived in spiritual matters.\u00a0 In fact most false teachers are men and most of these teachers have been deceived by others.\u00a0\u00a0 But let\u2019s not get off topic.\u00a0 Let\u2019s finish the issue of accountability.\u00a0 Is it fair for God to put a curse onto the earth because of Adam\u2019s treachery?<\/p>\n Doug:<\/span><\/strong> That doesn\u2019t appear fair to me at all.<\/p>\n Paul:<\/span> <\/strong> Remember that God created the animals from the ground and he created the garden of Eden out of the ground too.\u00a0 This special education should have made Adam a strong defender of God when the serpent came into the garden to deceive the woman and lie about God.\u00a0\u00a0 Because of man\u2019s deliberate treacherous act by staying silent when God\u2019s woman was being deceived, God cursed the ground that should have been the best reason for Adam to fulfill his role as protector of the garden.\u00a0 Adam failed God and his failure caused God\u2019s woman to remain in deception until she fell.<\/p>\n Is it fair for God to bring grace through the woman and then take back that grace and forbid all women after her from teaching?<\/p>\n Doug:<\/span><\/strong> God didn\u2019t forbid all women from teaching women.\u00a0 He only forbid them from teaching men.<\/p>\n Paul:<\/span> <\/strong> If this was true then God made a mistake.\u00a0 God should have allowed women to teach only men<\/em><\/strong>.\u00a0 If men are the designated spiritual leaders, and if all women are easily deceived, then their teaching gifts would only be safe by teaching men who by their spiritual privileged position would be able to correct her errors.\u00a0 It then would make sense that other women and children should not be taught be women since they too are easily deceived.\u00a0 In this view women could rightfully teach only men.\u00a0 But this is not what I taught and I have shown you what I taught in its complete context by showing you the inspired words and the inspired grammar.\u00a0 Now what are you going to do about it?<\/p>\n When you stop women from using their gifts for the benefit of the body of Jesus, you are operating in the natural and not in God\u2019s way.\u00a0 When you stand in the way of women using their gifts for the benefit of men you are persecuting Jesus.<\/p>\n Doug:<\/span><\/strong> You are really ticking me off!\u00a0 You are making me responsible for a woman using her gift of teaching for men!<\/p>\n Paul:<\/span> <\/strong>God does not hold Eve\u2019s short time of deception against her.\u00a0 Why are you holding it against all women?<\/p>\n Doug:<\/span><\/strong> This is what I was taught and it seems right to me.<\/p>\n Paul:<\/span> <\/strong>I believe that God sent me here to open your eyes.\u00a0 Brother Doug, you are no longer with an excuse.\u00a0 What is left is your pride that you have a privileged position because of your male parts.\u00a0 If you continue to accept and teach male supremacy when there is no spiritual supremacy allowing men alone to use their gifts of teaching, then you are not gathering with Jesus, you are scattering.\u00a0 Think about women who teach the bible to men.\u00a0 Are you trying to destroy these women as God\u2019s enemies?\u00a0 What you are really doing is persecuting Jesus who gifted and called His women.<\/p>\n Doug:<\/span><\/strong> I do no<\/strong><\/em>t want to hear what you have to say.\u00a0 Your words offend me and make me feel guilty before God.<\/p>\n Paul:<\/span> <\/strong> Brother Doug, your heart is being pricked just as I knew it would.\u00a0 It may take some time before you are ready to lay down your privileged position and accept your responsibility for lifting your sisters in Christ up and not hindering them and not standing in their way as a roadblock for Jesus Himself.\u00a0 Think on this.\u00a0 Everything else I have to say will be less hurtful than today has been.\u00a0 Are you willing to think about what I have said to you?\u00a0 If not I won\u2019t be back.<\/p>\n _________________________________<\/p>\n Stay tuned as we discover whether Doug is open to hear more.\u00a0 Thoughts?\u00a0 Encouraging words for Doug??<\/p>\n (The first interview with the Apostle Paul and Doug is located here<\/strong><\/a>.\u00a0 The\u00a0 second interview is here<\/strong><\/a>.\u00a0 The third interview is here<\/strong><\/a>.\u00a0 The fourth interview is here<\/strong><\/a>.\u00a0 The fifth interview is here<\/a><\/strong>.\u00a0 The sixth interview is here<\/strong><\/a>.) \u00a0Part eight is located here<\/a><\/strong>.<\/p>\n<\/body>","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":" This is the seventh in a series of simulated interviews with the Apostle Paul taken from the position of what he might say if we could transport Paul from the New Testament account through a time tunnel into our present day. Doug, a strong complementarian is questioning Paul on why the man alone brought sin into the world.\u00a0 Let\u2019s listen in.\u00a0 (Links to the previous interviews are at the bottom of this post.)<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":false,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[5,10,28,42,67],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-988","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-1-timothy-issues","category-adam-and-headship","category-conversation-style-post","category-in-the-beginning-genesis","category-the-fall-of-man"],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"yoast_head":"\n
\nPsalm 139:22\u00a0 I hate them with the utmost hatred; They have become my enemies.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n\n
\nActs 9:2\u00a0 and asked for letters from him to the synagogues at Damascus, so that if he found any belonging to the Way, both men and women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n
\nActs 9:4\u00a0 and he fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, \u201cSaul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me<\/strong>?\u201d
\nActs 9:5\u00a0 And he said, \u201cWho are You, Lord?\u201d And He said, \u201cI am Jesus whom you are persecuting<\/strong>,<\/p><\/blockquote>\n
\n1 Timothy 1:13\u00a0 even though I was formerly a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent aggressor. Yet I was shown mercy because<\/span> I acted ignorantly in unbelief<\/strong>;<\/p><\/blockquote>\n