{"id":912,"date":"2009-03-19T04:44:47","date_gmt":"2009-03-19T12:44:47","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/strivetoenter.com\/wim\/?p=912"},"modified":"2015-10-19T20:26:27","modified_gmt":"2015-10-20T03:26:27","slug":"round-2-interview-with-paul","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/strivetoenter.com\/wim\/2009\/03\/19\/round-2-interview-with-paul\/","title":{"rendered":"Round 2 Interview with the Apostle Paul"},"content":{"rendered":"\n

<\/p>This post is the second one of a simulated interview with the Apostle Paul taken from the position of what he might say if we could transport Paul from the New Testament account through a time tunnel into our present day. While Paul gets to experience life in the 21st century, Doug, a strong complementarian, is given the opportunity to interview the Apostle Paul on the hard passages about women in the bible.\u00a0 The first interview is located here<\/strong><\/a>.\u00a0 In the second interview Doug wants to revisit 1 Timothy 2:12 before moving on.\n

\"interview<\/p>\n

Doug:<\/span><\/strong> Hello brother Paul.\u00a0 I am so glad that we are able to continue with our interview.\u00a0 Did you enjoy taking the pulpit for John MacArthur?<\/p>\n

Paul:<\/span> <\/strong>I loved it!\u00a0 Well, actually I didn\u2019t take the pulpit.\u00a0 I just spoke to the congregation from the floor because I wanted to encourage everyone to speak and use their gifts.\u00a0 That was the way it was meant to be.\u00a0 After all we are all brothers in Christ and we can learn from each other.\u00a0 Unfortunately I don\u2019t think they will be having me back anytime soon.<\/p>\n

Doug:<\/span><\/strong> Your kidding!\u00a0 What happened?<\/p>\n

Paul:<\/span> <\/strong>Things were going really well when I spoke about our inheritance in Christ and I shared my writings from the book of Ephesians with them.\u00a0 They loved it\u2026that is until I gave them a bit more information than they wanted to hear.\u00a0 I asked if anyone had any questions they would like me to answer.\u00a0 One feisty young man asked me who actually wrote the book of Hebrews and so I told them.<\/p>\n

Doug:<\/span><\/strong> Yes??<\/p>\n

Paul:<\/span> <\/strong>Then they ushered me out of the building.<\/p>\n

Doug:<\/span><\/strong> No way!\u00a0 So who authored the book of Hebrews?<\/p>\n

Paul:<\/span> <\/strong>I am keeping tight lipped on that one.\u00a0 People in the 21st century just can\u2019t take it.\u00a0 Let\u2019s just set that one aside and talk about the next scripture you wanted to ask me about.<\/p>\n

Doug:<\/span><\/strong> I want to wait for the next scripture because I have been thinking about what you said about 1 Timothy 2:12 and I still have more questions.\u00a0 Can we continue with this passage?<\/p>\n

Paul:<\/span> <\/strong> Sure go ahead.\u00a0 What problems do you have with this passage?<\/p>\n

Doug:<\/span><\/strong> I didn\u2019t think I had any problems with this passage until you showed up.\u00a0 You said that there would have to be a second witness if this passage was stopping all godly women from teaching the bible to men.<\/p>\n

Paul:<\/span> <\/strong> Yes that is right.\u00a0 And don\u2019t forget that I always made a habit of repeating all the important things.\u00a0 Repetition is for your safety.<\/p>\n

Doug:<\/span><\/strong> Isn\u2019t it just a rule for a court proceeding that requires two witnesses before a person can be found guilty?\u00a0 How can you now apply the rule of two or three witnesses to the law itself?<\/p>\n

Paul:<\/span> <\/strong> No problem, brother Doug, it is much more than that.\u00a0 Let me ask you a question from a passage and I think you will see it for yourself.\u00a0 Look at John 5:31<\/p>\n

John 5:31\u00a0 \u201cIf I alone testify about Myself, My testimony is not true.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Why was Jesus\u2019 testimony not considered true if there was only one witness?\u00a0 Was Jesus in a court of law testifying against people?<\/p>\n

Doug:<\/span><\/strong> No, he wasn\u2019t in a court.\u00a0 He was giving testimony that he was the Son of God and that he had life in Himself.<\/p>\n

Paul:<\/span> <\/strong> That\u2019s right.\u00a0 Jesus showed that the law of two or three witnesses went beyond just charging people with sin.\u00a0 He applied it to his testimony to make it a documented and established fact.\u00a0 When Jesus said that he is the Light of the world, the Pharisees accused him with being only one witness and thus they said his testimony was not true.<\/p>\n

John 8:12\u00a0 Then Jesus again spoke to them, saying, \u201cI am the Light of the world; he who follows Me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the Light of life.\u201d
\nJohn 8:13\u00a0 So the Pharisees said to Him, \u201cYou are testifying about Yourself; Your testimony is not true<\/strong>.\u201d
\nJohn 8:14\u00a0 Jesus answered and said to them, \u201cEven if I testify about Myself, My testimony is true, for I know where I came from and where I am going; but you do not know where I come from or where I am going.
\nJohn 8:15\u00a0 \u201cYou judge according to the flesh; I am not judging anyone.
\nJohn 8:16\u00a0 \u201cBut even if I do judge, My judgment is true; for I am not alone in it<\/strong>, but I and the Father who sent Me.
\nJohn 8:17\u00a0 \u201cEven in your law it has been written that the testimony of two men is true.
\nJohn 8:18\u00a0 \u201cI am He who testifies about Myself, and the Father who sent Me testifies about Me.\u201d<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Paul:<\/span> <\/strong> Can you see that Jesus\u2019 witness that he is the Light of the world needed to be documented by another witness?<\/p>\n

Doug:<\/span><\/strong> Why should the Son of God need another witness?\u00a0 Isn\u2019t His own witness good enough?\u00a0 After all He is the God who made this world.<\/p>\n

Paul:<\/span> <\/strong> God has set a principle for our safety.\u00a0 Take a look at Deuteronomy 19:15.<\/p>\n

Deut 19:15\u00a0 \u201cA single witness shall not rise up against a man on account of any iniquity or any sin which he has committed; on the evidence of two or three witnesses a matter<\/strong> shall be confirmed.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Paul:<\/span> <\/strong> God has established the need for a matter to be confirmed.\u00a0 When you look up the meaning for the Hebrew word translated \u201cmatter\u201d you will see that it means word, speech, matter and it is used for a command<\/strong> or royal decree<\/strong>, a legal cause and most important of all was the use of this word to convey divine communication<\/strong>.\u00a0 The Ten Commandments were literally called the ten words of the Lord.\u00a0 So literally Deuteronomy 19:15 says that \u201con the evidence of two or three witnesses a word or commandment shall be confirmed.\u201d<\/p>\n

Doug:<\/span><\/strong> Okay.\u00a0 So are you saying that these important divine communications all had a second or third witness to confirm them?<\/p>\n

Paul:<\/span> <\/strong> Yes!\u00a0 Take for example the ten words of the LORD God \u2013 the ten commandments.\u00a0 This \u201cmatter\u201d was spoken from the mouth of God and then God wrote them on stone tablets.\u00a0 After that Moses broke the tablets when he came down from the mountain but God wrote them once again on stone.\u00a0 Then after that they were communicated again throughout the scriptures.\u00a0 God made sure that these commandments, His ten \u201cwords\u201d were repeated for our benefit.\u00a0 Brother Doug, can you think of even one law of the LORD that is not repeated in the scriptures?<\/p>\n

Doug:<\/span><\/strong> Hmmm\u2026I can\u2019t think of any.\u00a0 It seems to me that all laws were repeated.<\/p>\n

Paul:<\/span> <\/strong> Good then you get it!<\/p>\n

Doug:<\/span><\/strong> Wait\u2026wait!\u00a0 But doesn\u2019t 1 Timothy 2:12 give the reason as the creation?\u00a0 Doesn\u2019t this mean that the OT has a law that forbids women to teach men?\u00a0 Wouldn\u2019t that mean that there is<\/strong><\/em> a second witness?<\/p>\n

Paul:<\/span> <\/strong> No.\u00a0 1 Timothy 2:13, 14 gives a reason for the prohibition that I gave for the situation at Ephesus and it is all about deception.\u00a0 The fact is that the first one created was not deceived.\u00a0 The second one created was deceived.\u00a0 The reason for my stopping the teaching is all about deception.\u00a0 It isn\u2019t about leadership or any \u201claw\u201d from the Old Testament.\u00a0 Did you find a \u201claw\u201d that forbid women to teach men in the OT?<\/p>\n

Doug:<\/span><\/strong> No, I didn\u2019t but some have speculated that you may have been referencing the words of God at the fall.<\/p>\n

Paul:<\/span> <\/strong> God didn\u2019t tell Eve that she wasn\u2019t allowed to teach Adam.\u00a0 God didn\u2019t tell Adam that he wasn\u2019t allowed to be taught by Eve.\u00a0 There is no such \u201claw\u201d in the creation or the fall.<\/p>\n

Doug:<\/span><\/strong> Then why did you bring it up?<\/p>\n

Paul:<\/span> <\/strong> Because the very first woman naively fell into deception just like the situation we were dealing with at Ephesus.\u00a0 The very first woman was also promised salvation through the coming Messiah so that God sovereignly worked all things for good.\u00a0 Eve was deceived but she was not out for the count because her seed would eventually destroy the destroyer.\u00a0 I gave a word of hope to Timothy in verse 15 that there would be salvation in the end for the situation in Ephesus.\u00a0 She will be saved through the same Messiah that came through the very first deceived woman.\u00a0 Just as the first deceived woman received hope, so Timothy could see hope for another bad situation.\u00a0 Timothy was to make sure that she received proper instruction and in the end God will bring good out of bad just like He did for the original deceived woman.\u00a0 Brother Doug, there is no law that forbids women from teaching the bible to men.\u00a0 If there was such a law, don\u2019t you think that God would have forbidden women from teaching everyone instead of just men?\u00a0 After all do we normally send out the deceived to teach children?<\/p>\n

Also think about Priscilla.\u00a0 If there was a law that forbid women from teaching men, do you think that Priscilla would have disobeyed God\u2019s law?\u00a0 And if she disobeyed God\u2019s law, don\u2019t you think that the scripture would have mentioned that she did something wrong?\u00a0 How could Priscilla be commended for her work if she found it necessary to disobey God\u2019s law?\u00a0 Think about it.\u00a0 Work hard to test all things.<\/p>\n

Doug:<\/span><\/strong> I can see that there are some things that I hadn\u2019t considered before.\u00a0 But I still don\u2019t feel that it is right.<\/p>\n

Paul:<\/span> <\/strong> I will let you sleep on it.\u00a0 Think these things through and if God wills I will be back to answer more of your questions.\u00a0 In the meantime I am off to investigate a vision box.\u00a0 I have heard that there are many preachers on this vision box and I want to test their teaching.<\/p>\n

Doug:<\/span><\/strong> You mean you are going to watch TV preachers?\u00a0 Oh boy, are you in for a surprise!<\/p>\n

(Round 3 of Interview with Paul is found here<\/strong><\/a>.)<\/p>\n<\/body>","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

This post is the second one of a simulated interview with the Apostle Paul taken from the position of what he might say if we could transport Paul from the New Testament account through a time tunnel into our present day. While Paul gets to experience life in the 21st century, Doug, a strong complementarian, is given the opportunity to interview the Apostle Paul on the hard passages about women in the bible.\u00a0 The first interview is located here.\u00a0 In…<\/p>\n

Read More Read More<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":false,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[5,11,24,28,31,52,73],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-912","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-1-timothy-issues","category-answering-complementarian-arguments","category-complementarian-errors","category-conversation-style-post","category-egalitarian-vs-complementarian","category-opposing-viewpoints","category-women-serving-in-the-church"],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"yoast_head":"\nRound 2 Interview with the Apostle Paul - Women in Ministry<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/strivetoenter.com\/wim\/2009\/03\/19\/round-2-interview-with-paul\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Round 2 Interview with the Apostle Paul - Women in Ministry\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"This post is the second one of a simulated interview with the Apostle Paul taken from the position of what he might say if we could transport Paul from the New Testament account through a time tunnel into our present day. 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