{"id":826,"date":"2009-01-27T20:14:48","date_gmt":"2009-01-28T04:14:48","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/strivetoenter.com\/wim\/?p=826"},"modified":"2015-10-19T20:27:18","modified_gmt":"2015-10-20T03:27:18","slug":"ortlund-obscuring-the-nature-of-male-and-female","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/strivetoenter.com\/wim\/2009\/01\/27\/ortlund-obscuring-the-nature-of-male-and-female\/","title":{"rendered":"Raymond Ortlund says creation order needed to not obscure nature"},"content":{"rendered":"\n

<\/p>\n

\"distort1<\/p>\n

In our discussion of CBMW\u2019s book Recovering Biblical Manhood and Womanhood<\/em>, continuing on in chapter 3 in the writings of Raymond C. Ortlund Jr., Mr. Ortlund redefines the creation account in such a way that God\u2019s creation of the male first<\/strong><\/em> is said to be necessary in order that the nature<\/strong><\/em> of the male and female is not obscured.\u00a0 Ortlund writes on page 102:<\/p>\n

God did not make Adam and Eve from the ground at the same time and for one another without distinction.\u00a0 Neither did God make the woman first, and then the man from<\/em> the woman for<\/em> the woman.\u00a0 He could have created them in either of these ways so easily, but He didn\u2019t.\u00a0 Why?\u00a0 Because, presumably<\/strong><\/em>, that would have obscured<\/strong><\/em> the very nature of manhood and womanhood that He intended to make clear. (emphasis is mine)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Ortlund\u2019s presumption here is quite clear from this chapter.\u00a0 God made man first, according to Ortlund, to show that woman-<\/p>\n

\u2026was not his (man\u2019s) equal in that she was his \u201chelper\u201d.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

and<\/p>\n

A man, just by virtue of his manhood, is called to lead<\/strong><\/em> for God.\u00a0 A woman, just by virtue of her womanhood, is called to help<\/strong><\/em> for God. (my emphasis)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

When Ortlund says that creating man and woman at the same time would have obscured the very nature of manhood and womanhood, what is he talking about?\u00a0 Ortlund is not defining \u201cmanhood\u201d as being male or \u201cwomanhood\u201d as being female.\u00a0 He is defining \u201cmanhood\u201d and \u201cwomanhood\u201d by the preconceived \u201croles\u201d that he has assigned to each one.\u00a0\u00a0 \u201cManhood\u201d is now the responsibility to take dominion over the female and to lead her in ways that she supposedly was created to need leading in.\u00a0 Roles then, assigned by the timing of the creation of humanity, are what separates the genders and what creates the priority for the male.\u00a0 But is this truly why God created the male first?\u00a0 Was God giving us a hint<\/em> that there was a priority in rule and leadership given to the male because he was created first from the dirt?<\/p>\n

Let\u2019s reason from the scriptures and think these things through thoughtfully and carefully.\u00a0 First of all, we have to agree with Ortlund that God could<\/strong><\/em> have created the man and the woman from the dirt at the same time<\/strong><\/em>.\u00a0 We also can ask the same question, why did God choose from his own sovereign will to create the man and the woman at different times and in different ways?\u00a0 Why did God not create the woman from the dirt just like he had created the man?<\/p>\n

First of all let\u2019s look at all the bible verses that say that the male is to have leadership over the female because of his first creation.\u00a0 There are exactly zero <\/strong><\/em>verses in the scripture giving first creation status to the male for leadership over the female.\u00a0 The only verses that talks about a cause and effect regarding the order of creation are in 1 Timothy 2:13, 14.<\/p>\n

1 Timothy 2:13\u00a0 For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve.
\n1 Timothy 2:14\u00a0 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Here we see that the discussion of the second one created is tied to deception<\/strong><\/em> and the first one created is tied to not deceived<\/strong><\/em>.\u00a0 There is zero<\/strong><\/em> connection to male leadership.\u00a0 The fact is that male leadership would have to be read into<\/em> the passage instead of pulled out<\/em> of it because leadership of the male is certainly not in the passage.<\/p>\n

So if the first one created is never tied into leadership, then what was the point of creating the man first?\u00a0 Why couldn\u2019t Eve have been created at the same time right there beside Adam from her side<\/em> of the dirt bed?<\/p>\n

The reason is because God sovereignly chose to create the woman from the man\u2019s body for two reasons<\/em> and the reasons have absolutely nothing to do with leadership.<\/p>\n

1.\u00a0 The woman was created from the man\u2019s body in order for her to be identified as belonging to him in a one-flesh union with the man in the most intimate of relationships.<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n

If the woman had been created from the dirt beside the man, she would not have been flesh of his flesh and bone of his bone.\u00a0 So if God wanted the woman created not as separate flesh, but in an unmistakable identify with Adam, God had to create him first so that there was a rib that could be taken out to create the woman.\u00a0 By creating the man first and by allowing him to take on a task designed to show him his lack of a mate, the man was prepared to receive his one-flesh partner.<\/p>\n

2.\u00a0 The woman was created from the man\u2019s body in order for her to be a physical descendant of Adam through whom the Messiah could come but without the taint of Adam\u2019s sin.<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n

Before God created Adam and Eve, he knew that the fall would happen and it was his own plan and design that the Word of God would come to take on the flesh of humanity as a true Kinsman Redeemer.\u00a0 This Redeemer was to be both God and man, but it was also necessary for the Redeemer to have a physical blood line back to Adam, yet without the taint of sin.\u00a0 In God\u2019s divine plan, it wasn\u2019t an option<\/em> that Eve was created from Adam\u2019s body, but an absolute necessity<\/em> because of the pre-planned salvation of mankind.\u00a0 You will need to click on the image below or on the highlighted words\u00a0 to go to the illustrated post where God\u2019s sovereign plan is diagrammed showing how the Messiah came as a son of Adam but without the taint of Adam\u2019s sin<\/strong><\/a>.<\/p>\n

\"Adam<\/a><\/p>\n

After viewing the diagrams of God\u2019s wisdom in the order of creation, isn\u2019t God\u2019s plan for mankind and the redemption of mankind marvelously revealed through the Designer\u2019s plan of Eve\u2019s creation from Adam\u2019s own body?\u00a0 When you viewed the illustrated post linked above, were you able to see God\u2019s ultimate design plan that was designed to effectively bypass the stain of Adam\u2019s sin?\u00a0 Does this\u00a0 make much more biblical sense than the unscriptural idea of assigning the role of\u00a0 \u201cleader\u201d\u00a0 to the first one created when God never<\/em> assigns this role to the male in creation?\u00a0\u00a0 Can you see how the physical connection of Eve back to Adam is not an unplanned side thought but rather God\u2019s wonderful pre-planned design?<\/p>\n

Instead of considering the plan of salvation that was designed before the world was created, Ortlund sees the first creation of the male as a sign of power and rule and primary responsibility. \u00a0 He reasons that having woman created at the same time would \u201cobscure\u201d manhood and womanhood because then primary \u201croles\u201d could not be assigned to the first and the second.\u00a0 For Ortlund, having Adam and Eve created at the same time with both of them from the dirt would be a missed opportunity for God to hint<\/em> to us that the second one created was made to be \u201cinequal\u201d in leadership behind the first created.\u00a0 But may I respectfully say that what Ortlund has completely failed to present in his chapter in CBMW\u2019s book is the redemptive reason<\/strong><\/em> for Eve\u2019s creation second<\/em> as God\u2019s pre-thought-out creation to come from Adam\u2019s own body.<\/p>\n

Instead of giving the Designer praise for the plan of redemption mirrored in the order<\/strong><\/em> of creation, Raymond C. Ortlund\u2019s focus is on a prideful \u201croyal prerogative\u201d extended to the man.<\/p>\n

Next post we will be continuing on in chapter three of Recovering Biblical Manhood and Womanhood <\/em>and I will throw out for discussion the different theories about what came out of Adam that was used to become the woman.<\/p>\n<\/body>","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

In our discussion of CBMW\u2019s book Recovering Biblical Manhood and Womanhood, continuing on in chapter 3 in the writings of Raymond C. Ortlund Jr., Mr. Ortlund redefines the creation account in such a way that God\u2019s creation of the male first is said to be necessary in order that the nature of the male and female is not obscured.\u00a0 Ortlund writes on page 102: God did not make Adam and Eve from the ground at the same time and for…<\/p>\n

Read More Read More<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":false,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[5,10,11,13,42,51,67],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-826","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-1-timothy-issues","category-adam-and-headship","category-answering-complementarian-arguments","category-authority-and-leadership","category-in-the-beginning-genesis","category-old-testament-scriptures","category-the-fall-of-man"],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"yoast_head":"\nRaymond Ortlund says creation order needed to not obscure nature - Women in Ministry<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/strivetoenter.com\/wim\/2009\/01\/27\/ortlund-obscuring-the-nature-of-male-and-female\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Raymond Ortlund says creation order needed to not obscure nature - Women in Ministry\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"In our discussion of CBMW\u2019s book Recovering Biblical Manhood and Womanhood, continuing on in chapter 3 in the writings of Raymond C. 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