{"id":2241,"date":"2010-08-10T20:21:29","date_gmt":"2010-08-11T03:21:29","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/strivetoenter.com\/wim\/?p=2241"},"modified":"2015-10-19T20:23:37","modified_gmt":"2015-10-20T03:23:37","slug":"1-timothy-215-going-deeper","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/strivetoenter.com\/wim\/2010\/08\/10\/1-timothy-215-going-deeper\/","title":{"rendered":"1 Timothy 2:15 going deeper into the results of the prohibition"},"content":{"rendered":"<body>\n<p><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-2242\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.mmoutreach.org\/wim\/wp-content\/uploads\/2010\/08\/going-deeper.jpg?resize=450%2C300\" alt=\"Going deeper in 1 Timothy 2:15 on Women in Ministry blog by Cheryl Schatz\" width=\"450\" height=\"300\" loading=\"lazy\"><\/p>\n<p>1 Timothy 2:15 has been one of the most puzzling verses to decipher throughout church history. One of the difficult things in interpreting this verse is the translator\u2019s rendering of some difficult grammar. Some translations leave out some of the grammar that is necessary to come to a correct interpretation. How can we claim to know what Paul meant in this passage if we leave out some of the key inspired grammar?<\/p>\n<p>Here are some of the particular grammar issues that Paul presents in 1 Timothy 2:15 \u2013\u00a0<!--more--><\/p>\n<ol>\n<li>Paul switches from singular feminine to third person plural. Since it is improper grammar to allow both singular and plural to refer to the exact same person(s), then \u201cshe\u201d cannot be the exact same thing as \u201cthey\u201d.<\/li>\n<li>Paul uses a unique form of childbearing by using a definite noun and not a verb<\/li>\n<li>\u201cThe childbearing\u201d is singular not plural<\/li>\n<li>The grammar is future tense with a conditional clause so the \u201cshe\u201d in question cannot be someone who is dead at the time of Paul\u2019s writing.<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p>Many of the translations of this difficult verse move into interpretation rather than just translation in an effort to help people understand Paul\u2019s hard saying, but in doing so they leave out some of the inspired grammar that actually would conflict with their interpretation.\u00a0\u00a0 Without the presence of all of the inspired grammar any English translation of 1 Timothy 2:15 is going to be much harder to understand Paul\u2019s thought process. For example some translations leave out the singular so that it appears Paul is talking about all women.\u00a0 Others leave out the plural so that it appears that Paul is talking about a generic woman. Some change the singular noun to childbearing as plural as if the birth of all children is in view and some also leave out the definite article as if childbearing is concerning any child and any birth without any particularity.<\/p>\n<p>Other translations make a change from the inspired preposition <em>dia<\/em> (meaning \u201cthrough\u201d) and switch it with the preposition for \u201cin\u201d so that it is \u201cin childbearing\u201d not \u201cthrough childbearing\u201d as if it is the childbearing itself that saves rather than something that comes through the vehicle of childbearing.\u00a0 At least one translation changes the conditional \u201cif\u201d to the word \u201cassuming\u201d so that \u201cshe will be saved\u2026if\u2026\u201d is changed from a conditional statement to an assumption that all women will want to continue in the faith.<\/p>\n<p>Lastly one version, The New International Reader\u2019s Version also removes the logical contrastive conjunction so that the verse is not connected to the previous verse but rather is asking a question instead of having Paul make a conditional statement.<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>1 Timothy 2:15 (NIrV) Will women be saved by having children? Only if they keep on believing, loving, and leading a holy life in a proper way.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>The most faithful of all translations to the literal Greek grammar is Young\u2019s Literal Translation that renders the verse:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>1 Timothy 2:15 (YLT) and <em><strong>she<\/strong><\/em> shall be saved<em><strong> through the<\/strong><\/em> child-bearing, <em><strong>if they<\/strong><\/em> remain in faith, and love, and sanctification, with sobriety.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>If we take the literal words written by Paul we come up with the thought that the bad news about \u201cthe woman\u201d (vs 14) as \u201cbeing\u201d in transgression (perfect tense meaning a completed action which has a state of being that exists in the present in relation to the writer) is going to change with a conditional promise in verse 15.\u00a0 In verse 15 Paul says that \u201cbut\/or and\u201dand this is a logical contrastive conjunction that suggest an oppositional thought or relationship to the word, phrase or clause to which it is connected.\u00a0 So while the continued state of sin is brought out in verse 14, the contrast to that is a positive outlook about her salvation.\u00a0 Therefore \u201cshe shall be saved\u201d is a positive promise. But \u201cshe shall be saved\u201d is also future tense so \u201cshe\u201d cannot be referring to a dead Eve but must be referring to someone else.<\/p>\n<p>In \u201cshe shall be saved\u201d, Paul uses the same Greek term (sozo) that he exclusively uses in his epistles to mean spiritual salvation. Thus spiritual salvation is the normal and natural way to interpret Paul\u2019s usage of \u201csothesetai\u201d (sozo) in 1 Timothy 2:15.<\/p>\n<p>The way that \u201cshe will be saved\u201d is \u201c<em>through<\/em>\u201d something.\u00a0 \u201cThrough\u201d here means a marker of instrumentality or circumstance whereby something is accomplished or affected, by, via, or through.\u00a0 Therefore the childbearing is not the<em><strong> cause<\/strong><\/em> of salvation but the <em><strong>instrument<\/strong><\/em> that is used to bring the salvation \u201cthrough\u201d to the one who is in sin.\u00a0 The<em><strong> instrument<\/strong><\/em> that is used for salvation is clearly shown in Philippians 2:5-8 \u2013<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>Philippians 2:5\u20138 (NAS)<br>\n5\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,<br>\n6\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,<br>\n7\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 but <em><strong>emptied Himself<\/strong><\/em>, <em><strong>taking the form of a bond-servant<\/strong><\/em>, and <em><strong>being made in the likeness of men<\/strong><\/em>.<br>\n8\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0<em><strong> Being found in appearance as a man<\/strong><\/em>, He <em><strong>humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death<\/strong><\/em>, even death on a cross.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>The vehicle is taking upon Himself the likeness of a man through the process of conception and birth. The salvation is the death, burial and resurrection of the one who came<em><strong> through<\/strong><\/em> the vehicle of conception and birth.\u00a0 The conception and birth is like a portal that was the vehicle to bring the sin-bearer from heaven to earth in the form of the Kinsman redeemer.<\/p>\n<p>Paul continues in saying that \u201cshe will be saved through <em><strong>the childbearing<\/strong><\/em>\u201d or \u201c<em><strong>the bearing of (the) child<\/strong><\/em>.\u201d\u00a0 It is not <em>any<\/em> entry into the world of <em>any<\/em> child. It is a particular entrance with the definite \u201cthe\u201d and a particular child whose flesh was the vehicle through whom salvation could come for all those who are caught in sin.<\/p>\n<p>Next Paul says that \u201cshe will be saved\u2026<em><strong>if<\/strong><\/em>\u201d The \u201cif\u201d is an adverbial conditional conjunction which introduces a condition that must occur before another action or event can occur.<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>As part of a conditional clause this conjunction introduces the protasis (the if element of an if \u2026 then statement).\u00a0 (Glossary of Morpho-Syntactic Database Terminology)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>The conditions that are stated replicate the things that the false teachers were straying from that are listed in 1 Timothy 1:5-6.<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>1 Timothy 1:5\u20136 (NAS)<br>\n5\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 But the goal of our instruction is <em><strong>love from a pure heart<\/strong><\/em> and a <em><strong>good conscience<\/strong><\/em> and a <em><strong>sincere faith<\/strong><\/em>.<br>\n6\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 For some men, <em><strong>straying from these things<\/strong><\/em>, have turned aside to fruitless discussion,<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>If a woman has been caught in deception and she has strayed from a godly love from a pure heart, strayed from a good conscience and strayed from a sincere faith, these are things must be turned back to in order for her to stay within the boundaries of the true faith.<\/p>\n<p>The last thing to point out where Paul has made a clear condition is that \u201c<em>they<\/em>\u201d are to work through these conditions for \u201cshe will be saved\u2026if <em><strong>they<\/strong><\/em>\u2026\u201d<\/p>\n<p>The need for a helper to bring one to faith in Christ is never more crucial than in the issue of deception, for the truth of the matter is that the deceived rarely walk away on their own. The lure of deception is so strong that without help, the trap of the lie will keep the deceived in bondage.\u00a0 The one who knows the truth but who has been silent in correcting the error must now step up to the plate to be a major factor in encouraging the woman who is in sin. His encouragement will help her to step away from the deception and into the light of the truth.<\/p>\n<p>The next question is regarding whether Paul is giving a <em>solution<\/em> to the problem of a particular false and deceived teacher or whether he is describing the<em> nature<\/em> of a particular false teaching. I would like to explore these options to see which fits the passage in this one verse.<\/p>\n<p>The letter that Paul wrote to Timothy was written concerning the problems in the Ephesian church.\u00a0 In the city of Ephesus was a cult-like belief in Artemis the goddess of virginity, women\u2019s concerns including childbearing, the hunt and the underworld. Many came to see her as such an important part of that culture that people gave her great loyalty and a temple was built in Ephesus in her honor.\u00a0 Virginity was especially emphasized in the Temple of Artemis at Ephesus: only virgins and men were permitted access and married or sexually active women were excluded under penalty of death (see documentation <a title=\"Ephesian artemis\" href=\"http:\/\/www.sacred-destinations.com\/turkey\/ephesus-artemis.htm\" target=\"_blank\">here<\/a>).\u00a0 Since women called on the many breasted Artemis to help with childbirth, Paul\u2019s words about the childbearing are thought to be written in such a way as to be refuting a myth about the Ephesian goddess Artemis but is this really what Paul had in mind?<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-2259\" title=\"Ephesian artemis on Women in Ministry by Cheryl Schatz\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/strivetoenter.com\/wim\/wp-content\/uploads\/2010\/08\/ephesus_artemis.jpg?resize=300%2C261&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"Ephesian artemis on Women in Ministry by Cheryl Schatz\" width=\"300\" height=\"261\" loading=\"lazy\"><\/p>\n<p>I would like to submit that it is highly unlikely that Paul was appealing to a particular myth about an Ephesian deity in verse 15 because of the specific grammar found in the verse.\u00a0 While the myth was that Artemis oversaw childbirth and kept women safe during this precarious time, Paul wasn\u2019t talk about keeping a woman\u2019s physical life safe in the act of giving birth, but rather his grammar shows that in verse 15, Paul is referencing<em> the<\/em> bearing of<em> one<\/em> child and salvation is not being physically saved <em>from the perils<\/em> inherent in giving birth to children, but rather it is spiritual salvation from sin <em>through<\/em> the agency of the coming of One who became the<em> source<\/em> of our spiritual salvation. The genitive bearing <em>of child <\/em>determines something that<em> belongs<\/em> to the child as its <em>source<\/em> and no emphasis is put on the woman as source at all. Salvation is not coming through the mother or by keeping the mother physically safe, but through the agency of her child\u2019s coming.<\/p>\n<p>If Paul was creating a connection between a false teaching and a myth that associated protection during child birth to the help of the goddess Artemis as a woman\u2019s physical savior and Mother of all, then he failed to use the proper grammar for that teaching. He should have used a verb instead of a noun and he should have used the plural \u201cwomen\u201d who would experience maternal protection rather than a singular \u201cshe\u201d.\u00a0 Rather than referencing all women and feminine protection from harm during childbirth, Paul used a term that he exclusively used for spiritual salvation in all of his epistles. That goes against the grain of a multi-breasted gynecological helper. Paul\u2019s writing in 1 Timothy 2:15 takes the meaning of salvation in a completely different direction.<\/p>\n<p>In addition, if verse 15 is all about refuting a false teaching regarding the one who women are to look to for help during labor, then the specific grammar of verse 15 makes no sense in that context. Who is the \u201cshe\u201d and who are the \u201cthey\u201d and what does this grammar change have to do with protection from child birthing problems? The conditional promise using both the singular and plural grammar simply doesn\u2019t fit with a refutation of Artemis as a goddess midwife. I have just never seen a satisfactory explanation for a connection between verse 15 and the myth of Artemis. But is it possible that there is a connection between verses 13 &amp; 14 and this goddess myth?\u00a0 We will have a look at that question the next post.<\/p>\n<p>*note I have removed one relatively small point from my post as I received correction about an error that it included.\u00a0 I stand corrected as I want only to hold fast to what is true.<\/p>\n<\/body>","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>1 Timothy 2:15 has been one of the most puzzling verses to decipher throughout church history. One of the difficult things in interpreting this verse is the translator\u2019s rendering of some difficult grammar. Some translations leave out some of the grammar that is necessary to come to a correct interpretation. How can we claim to know what Paul meant in this passage if we leave out some of the key inspired grammar? Here are some of the particular grammar issues&#8230;<\/p>\n<p class=\"read-more\"><a class=\"btn btn-default\" href=\"https:\/\/strivetoenter.com\/wim\/2010\/08\/10\/1-timothy-215-going-deeper\/\"> Read More<span class=\"screen-reader-text\">  Read More<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":false,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[5,8],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-2241","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-1-timothy-issues","category-1-timothy-215"],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v24.9 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>1 Timothy 2:15 going deeper into the results of the prohibition - Women in Ministry<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/strivetoenter.com\/wim\/2010\/08\/10\/1-timothy-215-going-deeper\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"1 Timothy 2:15 going deeper into the results of the prohibition - Women in Ministry\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"1 Timothy 2:15 has been one of the most puzzling verses to decipher throughout church history. 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One of the difficult things in interpreting this verse is the translator\u2019s rendering of some difficult grammar. Some translations leave out some of the grammar that is necessary to come to a correct interpretation. How can we claim to know what Paul meant in this passage if we leave out some of the key inspired grammar? Here are some of the particular grammar issues... 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