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Did that make sense? lol

At 12 minutes the Sudanese man talks about how the women have 25 percent of the government jobs and that this has emboldened them to want more jobs. And this of course is completely against God’s will, am I right?

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At 12 minutes the Sudanese man talks about how the women have 25 percent of the government jobs and that this has emboldened them to want more jobs. And this of course is completely against God’s will, am I right?[/blockquote]

I think it’s great that the women are getting a taste of financial independence. But ofcourse, it’s completely against God’s will for them to want more jobs because *gasp*, it’s a sin! lol

[blockquote] At 12 minutes the Sudanese man talks about how the women have 25 percent of the government jobs and that this has emboldened them to want more jobs. And this of course is completely against God’s will, am I right?

As for the whole “woman issue,” I don’t know why, but for some reason, I’ve always felt deeply affected by it emotionally. Like I said, it’s played no actual role in my life. I haven’t been personally attacked or put down for being female, but for some reason, as a woman, I’ve always felt rather insecure about being a woman and afraid of not having equal worth in God’s sight because of my gender and the strong resurgence of complementarian thinking in the church these days. I mean, when you really think about it, how DO those verses in Ephesians about husbands and wives sound from the perspective of a woman? To me, they’ve always sounded really terrible and chauvinistic against women. And, I’m sorry, but the verses about how husbands are to love their wives as Christ loved the church don’t make the verses about wives submitting to their husbands any easier for me as a woman to swallow. I mean, think about it. REALLY think about it. What does the verse, “Wives submit unto your husbands AS UNTO THE LORD” REALLY say to you? To me, it has always seemed to SCREAM that a woman does not have the same worth in God’s eyes as a man does. To me, that verse has always basically seemed to say, “Wives, make your husbands God.” That’s certainly how I think a lot of men in the church take it (and I think they THOROUGHLY ENJOY doing so, although they probably won’t admit it!) I mean, think about it. REALLY THINK about those words for a minute. Wives, submit to your husbands as unto the Lord. You know what that verse does for me? For me, it basically makes a woman sub-human if she’s married. For me, that verse basically makes marriage a mere contract of slavery that allows a husband to own his wife like a sub-human piece of property. That verse REALLY seems to say that if a woman is married, her husband is God. And, that verse is one of several reasons why I likely will NEVER get married. I mean, I believe the egalitarian position is the correct one. But why do I believe it is correct? Because I WANT it to be correct. I believe it is correct because I merely HOPE it is correct. I don’t really know for sure, and if the comps are right about Ephesians…well, that is a chance I am not ABOUT to take. I want God to be my God and no one else, and certainly not a MAN, because while my father was great to me, I’ve seen the way men (one man in particular in my life) think of and treat women. To say the least, the verses on wifely submission are enough to put men on one HECK of an ego-trip, no matter how much following verses may preach at men to love their wives. I don’t think those verses are enough to prevent the ego-trip the preceding verse about wives submitting to their husbands “as unto the Lord” can really give them. I guess “the woman issue” is as important to me as it is because of the insecurity the submission verses have really given me all my life. And I won’t admit this often, but I do struggle inside, I have all my life, about being a woman because of the way certain Bible verses can sometimes make me feel, although in my heart of hearts, I don’t really believe that was ever God’s intent.

I’m glad you came here and shared what you have. It is a sad story and I couldn’t imagine myself having grown up in your shoes, so I definately feel for you there. I mean, you have to be a strong person to have gone through what you have. Strength is a good thing. And I’m glad you’ve shared your voice here. And it takes courage in my mind for you to have posted here and said what you’ve said.
The secret is, I was involved some with Cheryl during her experience and oh the horror that I dealt with and saw her deal with! Then I got wind of something that someone had said here at Cheryl’s blog about CARM and I then in response closed down, meaning I was done sharing or talking about the whole CARM thing out of fear!
So, thank you for sharing.

Yeah Its a 35 minute conversation and they tended to hop around a bit in their subject matter. The things concerning women and family pop up from time to time. The Sudanese man, who’s name I cannot recall, basically starts the talk about the situation in Sudan about the war. About 7 minutes in he talks about the war being a threat to the family although the Sudanese church seems to be growing. But he doesn’t like that the U.N. are coming in and are doing what he calls a “gender based approach to redevelopment” separating women from men and giving women business and jobs. Giving women these jobs is apparently messing up the family unit.

Or at least I’m assuming he means it’s bad for a woman to have a business apart from a man. Thus the U.N. is corrupting and secularizing the nation.

At 12 minutes the Sudanese man talks about how the women have 25 percent of the government jobs and that this has emboldened them to want more jobs. And this of course is completely against God’s will, am I right? They talk about church matters and up to a bit after the 15 minute mark he talks about how some women in the churches are youth ministers and preachers. And that the church he and his brother run do not allow women to have these positions.

The overall message is they do not like the idea of men and women being apart from one another and that they should remain together to preserve the family. And to that I find no fault. But to me a disturbing emphasis was put on the woman half. No real comments were made on the fact that man was separated from woman. It’s the fact that woman was separated from man that is bad.

It is my belief and observation that often those who take an unusually strong stand toward controlling women and limiting women, have an underlying dislike, even hatred, of women.

This is my belief also. And I can’t stand it. These days I feel like I’m at a point where I’m tired of it and feel like changing the sound of my voice against such hatred.

It will do little good to point out the wrongness of their judgements.

This I agree with too.

They need to see the root of their judgements; that their foundational viewpoint toward women is not godly love.

True but even if they were to see it (as at least some I believe do already) I don’t think it would matter or change much.

What such people need to be made aware of is that they are filled with a sinful attitude toward fellow believers and God will not honor it. They violate all the ‘one another’ Scriptures.

Again, I just don’t see how certain ones being made aware of their attitude will change anything. It’s their sad human condition, and I wonder what it will take for such persons to stop their sin.

However, what I’m going to say now may feel strange. Our best hope of healing will be found in forgiving such people. They are spiritually sick. We don’t need to share their sickness. Forgiveness is letting go of expecting to be righted. God will make it right. They aren’t going to change unless God does something. And God isn’t going to do anything in them if they resist His admonitions. Once we let their influence in our lives (on this subject) go, we can then stand back and be who we really are. And we can extend both pity and mercy toward them, for they are blind to their sin. We can also resist future bad influence from them. Once we forgive them, our ability to say NO with graciousness, firmness and understanding will be increased.

And then we can honor such a parent as a parent without receiving the damage from their sins.

I haven’t been on my blog much of late as I am working on a new DVD due out at the end of the year, but your comments really got my attention. I feel great compassion for you. I understand what you mean when you say that your father hates (hated) me as I experienced that as well as I sat just a few feet away from him when he stated in front of his own pastor that he would destroy me and my ministry. Both of us taped our meeting and I have never experienced that kind of venom in person before. It seems that I was singled out as one to be specially hated not only because I teach on Women in Ministry but because it appears that I am the only one who has ever succeed in getting him to attend a Matthew 18 meeting. By the end of the 4+ hour meeting, we thought that we had success as he agreed to stop attacking me and mentioning my name but by the time that we made the 12 hour ride home, he had posted pages written against me personally and removed his public correction on his radio podcast that he had agreed to give where he gave a correction to his public misrepresentation of my teaching.

While your father’s reason for meeting with me was to try to destroy me and my ministry by threatening me, so that I would give up on women in ministry, all it did was create a stronger resolve to fight for God’s women who have been abused, maligned and taken advantage of among other incredibly sad treatment.

What I have learned from all of this, is that when a person will not stop attacking and will not reconcile, trying to push them into a reconciliation will not succeed. If their heart is hard, no amount of grace will touch them.

I would really like to have a private email with you, if you can email me. My email and/or contact information is under the email button above. Also if I can help you in anyway, I would love to do so.

For the other side of your Father’s hatred of me, I have posted a statement here http://mmoutreach.org/slick.htm I hope this helps you to see the other side because there is no way that your Father would share this side with you. Hatred is a very harmful thing that has no good fruit.