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	<title>Comments on: Have men taken away women&#8217;s &#8220;good portion&#8221;?</title>
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	<link>http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2010/03/14/men-taken-womens-good-portion/</link>
	<description>This blog is for dialogue on the issue of women in ministry and the freedom for women to teach the bible in a public setting.  It is also for questions and answers on our DVD entitled "Women in Ministry: Silenced or Set Free?"  This 4 DVD set answers the hard passages of scripture that seem to restrict women's ministry.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 10 Sep 2010 11:34:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Cheryl Schatz</title>
		<link>http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2010/03/14/men-taken-womens-good-portion/comment-page-1/#comment-10882</link>
		<dc:creator>Cheryl Schatz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Mar 2010 07:32:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strivetoenter.com/wim/?p=1908#comment-10882</guid>
		<description>Wayne P,
Excellent observations.  Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wayne P,<br />
Excellent observations.  Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: Wayne P.</title>
		<link>http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2010/03/14/men-taken-womens-good-portion/comment-page-1/#comment-10877</link>
		<dc:creator>Wayne P.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2010 03:20:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strivetoenter.com/wim/?p=1908#comment-10877</guid>
		<description>In "Jesus through Middle-Eastern Eyes: Cultural Studies in the Gospels," Kenneth Bailey explains that the point of the story in Luke 10, when seen from a Middle-Eastern cultural context, is "not Martha's need for someone to peel the potatoes," but rather that she is "upset that her 'little sister' is seated with the men and has become a disciple of Rabbi Jesus." Her request is thus (my paraphrase of what the author says) a euphemism for the deep concern that she dare not express aloud publicly regarding the disgrace that Mary has brought on the family by violating this basic norm of their culture: "What will the neighbors say? After this who will marry her?" (p. 193). 

Those who see this text as encouragement for women to take time out from their housework to have their "daily devotions" have surely missed the point! It seems to me that, when understood within this cultural context, Mary really has more in common with the first woman in our age to pursue theological education (the story of Antoinette Brown is told in Stanley Grenz/Denise Muir Kjesbo's "Women in the Church: A Biblical Theology of Women in Ministry," on p. 59-60). In "choosing the good portion" Mary exhibited the same sort of significant courage.

When understood in this context, what Jesus is affirming - and defending and promoting - is much more significant than the typical Western reader grasps.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In &#8220;Jesus through Middle-Eastern Eyes: Cultural Studies in the Gospels,&#8221; Kenneth Bailey explains that the point of the story in Luke 10, when seen from a Middle-Eastern cultural context, is &#8220;not Martha&#8217;s need for someone to peel the potatoes,&#8221; but rather that she is &#8220;upset that her &#8216;little sister&#8217; is seated with the men and has become a disciple of Rabbi Jesus.&#8221; Her request is thus (my paraphrase of what the author says) a euphemism for the deep concern that she dare not express aloud publicly regarding the disgrace that Mary has brought on the family by violating this basic norm of their culture: &#8220;What will the neighbors say? After this who will marry her?&#8221; (p. 193). </p>
<p>Those who see this text as encouragement for women to take time out from their housework to have their &#8220;daily devotions&#8221; have surely missed the point! It seems to me that, when understood within this cultural context, Mary really has more in common with the first woman in our age to pursue theological education (the story of Antoinette Brown is told in Stanley Grenz/Denise Muir Kjesbo&#8217;s &#8220;Women in the Church: A Biblical Theology of Women in Ministry,&#8221; on p. 59-60). In &#8220;choosing the good portion&#8221; Mary exhibited the same sort of significant courage.</p>
<p>When understood in this context, what Jesus is affirming - and defending and promoting - is much more significant than the typical Western reader grasps.</p>
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		<title>By: Alison</title>
		<link>http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2010/03/14/men-taken-womens-good-portion/comment-page-1/#comment-10829</link>
		<dc:creator>Alison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2010 11:55:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strivetoenter.com/wim/?p=1908#comment-10829</guid>
		<description>And that's what's so frustrating about the sin of pride lurking behind complementarian teaching, especially in the case of the "semwives" program. It's not about the deeper things of God since (sorry to be snarky) the "ladies can't handle them", but rather about "how to be a better hausfrau". Knowing that there is NO scriptural precedent for such a program only makes it that much worse. 

It really sickens me to see some of this, since the men don't realize they are only harming themselves by denying women access to the table, so to speak. They are denying themselves the opportunity to learn from women and thus to grow. The loss to the Kingdom of God is almost irreparable, since the loss of the gifts of these women cannot be replaced by yet more men.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And that&#8217;s what&#8217;s so frustrating about the sin of pride lurking behind complementarian teaching, especially in the case of the &#8220;semwives&#8221; program. It&#8217;s not about the deeper things of God since (sorry to be snarky) the &#8220;ladies can&#8217;t handle them&#8221;, but rather about &#8220;how to be a better hausfrau&#8221;. Knowing that there is NO scriptural precedent for such a program only makes it that much worse. </p>
<p>It really sickens me to see some of this, since the men don&#8217;t realize they are only harming themselves by denying women access to the table, so to speak. They are denying themselves the opportunity to learn from women and thus to grow. The loss to the Kingdom of God is almost irreparable, since the loss of the gifts of these women cannot be replaced by yet more men.</p>
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		<title>By: Cheryl Schatz</title>
		<link>http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2010/03/14/men-taken-womens-good-portion/comment-page-1/#comment-10823</link>
		<dc:creator>Cheryl Schatz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 14:52:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strivetoenter.com/wim/?p=1908#comment-10823</guid>
		<description>If one reads through the "good portion" set aside for the wives of the seminary students that they call "semwives" on John MacArthur's Master's Seminary, you will see that it includes not the deep things of God but "salad supper recipes", "disciplined use of our time", "hospitality samples" and "how to prepare a testimony".

It greatly saddens me that women are not allowed to learn even though there is not even one Scripture that they could base this on that denies learning to women.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If one reads through the &#8220;good portion&#8221; set aside for the wives of the seminary students that they call &#8220;semwives&#8221; on John MacArthur&#8217;s Master&#8217;s Seminary, you will see that it includes not the deep things of God but &#8220;salad supper recipes&#8221;, &#8220;disciplined use of our time&#8221;, &#8220;hospitality samples&#8221; and &#8220;how to prepare a testimony&#8221;.</p>
<p>It greatly saddens me that women are not allowed to learn even though there is not even one Scripture that they could base this on that denies learning to women.</p>
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		<title>By: Alison</title>
		<link>http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2010/03/14/men-taken-womens-good-portion/comment-page-1/#comment-10821</link>
		<dc:creator>Alison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 06:56:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strivetoenter.com/wim/?p=1908#comment-10821</guid>
		<description>Mara, 

Their fear is on one thing: that they will lose their status as the "leaders" of their churches and families. That fear has roots in only one thing: pride. Some of these men are so threatened by women having access to the deeper things of God that they are willing to deliberately and egregiously sin in order to prevent such access, and in so doing, they are attempting to quench the Spirit.  This doesn't occur to some of them (as in the "Semwives" program at The Masters' Seminary), since they figure such programs are enough to qualify as the women's "good portion", and the not-so-subtle message is, "This is the half a loaf you're going to get, and to reach for any more means you are not content with how God designed you, and by reaching for more, you are insulting His wisdom". 

It's really sad, since they're the ones who are insulting God. By deciding what the women's "good portion" will be, they have abrogated His wisdom (that they claim to so highly value), and set their traditions in His place! I know it's frustrating, but until their sin is revealed to them directly and repeatedly, they will not be willing to sit down at the table with us and be willing to learn from us. All we can do is continue to pray, study Scripture, and be willing to deal with such men with openness and love. Perhaps I'm naive, but that will show them that our "good portion" is authentic, and is not a threat to them, but a cause for celebration.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mara, </p>
<p>Their fear is on one thing: that they will lose their status as the &#8220;leaders&#8221; of their churches and families. That fear has roots in only one thing: pride. Some of these men are so threatened by women having access to the deeper things of God that they are willing to deliberately and egregiously sin in order to prevent such access, and in so doing, they are attempting to quench the Spirit.  This doesn&#8217;t occur to some of them (as in the &#8220;Semwives&#8221; program at The Masters&#8217; Seminary), since they figure such programs are enough to qualify as the women&#8217;s &#8220;good portion&#8221;, and the not-so-subtle message is, &#8220;This is the half a loaf you&#8217;re going to get, and to reach for any more means you are not content with how God designed you, and by reaching for more, you are insulting His wisdom&#8221;. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s really sad, since they&#8217;re the ones who are insulting God. By deciding what the women&#8217;s &#8220;good portion&#8221; will be, they have abrogated His wisdom (that they claim to so highly value), and set their traditions in His place! I know it&#8217;s frustrating, but until their sin is revealed to them directly and repeatedly, they will not be willing to sit down at the table with us and be willing to learn from us. All we can do is continue to pray, study Scripture, and be willing to deal with such men with openness and love. Perhaps I&#8217;m naive, but that will show them that our &#8220;good portion&#8221; is authentic, and is not a threat to them, but a cause for celebration.</p>
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		<title>By: Mara</title>
		<link>http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2010/03/14/men-taken-womens-good-portion/comment-page-1/#comment-10807</link>
		<dc:creator>Mara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 17:12:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strivetoenter.com/wim/?p=1908#comment-10807</guid>
		<description>Thanks Cheryl.
And since no one else has jumped in here and said, YES, non-egals ARE trying to take away the woman's portion, I will.

You have it so right. Sometimes I fear for non-egals and the judgement they heap upon themselves in trying to be the 'ministry police' and enforcing the traditions of men on the church and stealing away the woman's portion. If Jesus says it's not to be taken away, where is their fear of God as they snatch away what doesn't belong to them? Where is their fear as they enforce with "thus saith the Lord" when the Lord hasn't said it?

Frustrating to no end.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Cheryl.<br />
And since no one else has jumped in here and said, YES, non-egals ARE trying to take away the woman&#8217;s portion, I will.</p>
<p>You have it so right. Sometimes I fear for non-egals and the judgement they heap upon themselves in trying to be the &#8216;ministry police&#8217; and enforcing the traditions of men on the church and stealing away the woman&#8217;s portion. If Jesus says it&#8217;s not to be taken away, where is their fear of God as they snatch away what doesn&#8217;t belong to them? Where is their fear as they enforce with &#8220;thus saith the Lord&#8221; when the Lord hasn&#8217;t said it?</p>
<p>Frustrating to no end.</p>
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		<title>By: Cheryl Schatz</title>
		<link>http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2010/03/14/men-taken-womens-good-portion/comment-page-1/#comment-10792</link>
		<dc:creator>Cheryl Schatz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 20:46:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strivetoenter.com/wim/?p=1908#comment-10792</guid>
		<description>Mara,
Amen!  I like the way your translation says it for trying to hinder a woman is indeed "troubling" her.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mara,<br />
Amen!  I like the way your translation says it for trying to hinder a woman is indeed &#8220;troubling&#8221; her.</p>
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		<title>By: Mara</title>
		<link>http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2010/03/14/men-taken-womens-good-portion/comment-page-1/#comment-10790</link>
		<dc:creator>Mara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 19:22:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strivetoenter.com/wim/?p=1908#comment-10790</guid>
		<description>In my translation Mark 14:6 it says, "Stop troubling the woman..."

I really like that. And I wish these non-egals would take the words of Jesus, the Living Word of God to heart and STOP TROUBLING WOMEN!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my translation Mark 14:6 it says, &#8220;Stop troubling the woman&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>I really like that. And I wish these non-egals would take the words of Jesus, the Living Word of God to heart and STOP TROUBLING WOMEN!</p>
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