Comments on: Round 9 Interview with the Apostle Paul - God does just as He pleases

By: Don

Don — Fri, 29 May 2009 14:52:43 +0000

God is sovereign, but God is also a covenant keeper so this means God cannot break a vow of any covenant God makes. One can depend on the God of the Bible to keep God’s covenants, this is one difference from Islam and an important one.

On Jonah, the way I word it is Jonah truncated. This is allowed in Hebrew thinking but does not work with strict Greek logic.

By: Cheryl Schatz

Cheryl Schatz — Fri, 29 May 2009 06:17:33 +0000

Dr. Willingham,
The prophesy of Jonah is very familiar to me as it came up often when I was witnessing to Jehovah’s Witnesses. They used to say that Jonah gave a false prophesy and therefore their organization could also give false prophesies without being called a false prophet.

However I used to take them to Jeremiah 18:7, 8

Jer 18:7 “At one moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to uproot, to pull down, or to destroy it;
Jer 18:8 if that nation against which I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent concerning the calamity I planned to bring on it.

The prophesies that God gives regarding either good or evil are provisional so Jonah’s prophesy was not a false prophesy as many would like to claim, but a prophecy that had a condition on it.

You are right in that Jonah wanted the Ninevites destroyed but he also knew how gracious God is. ” for I knew that You are a gracious and compassionate God, slow to anger and abundant in lovingkindness, and one who relents concerning calamity. ” Jonah 4:2

I fully agree with you about God being Sovereign and that God can make exceptions to a general rule if he would like to. The exceptions always seem to show the righteousness of God and his gracious kindness. Allowing a woman to serve in the gift that He gave her would certainly fall into the category of kindness, graciousness, compassion and God’s Sovereignty.

Good words!

By: Don

Don — Wed, 27 May 2009 20:59:03 +0000

I do not see salvation as an exception to the law, I see Torah teaching salvation is always by faith in God’s promises, specifically faith in Messiah as he has been revealed to you, e.g, Abraham.

By: Dr. James Willingham

Dr. James Willingham — Wed, 27 May 2009 17:56:44 +0000

I did not read all of this round 9 as my strength is limited, but the idea of God as Sovereign was the very truth that I found that could explain how Sandy Creek Church could have Eldresses in the 1700s. Being Sovereign, God can do as He pleases. And his word does not always mean what our limited methods determine that it must mean. His ords mean what He wants them to mean. Just consider the mesage of Jonah to Nineveh. The statement, for days and Nineveh shall be overthrown, was not litterally fulfilled, because its purpose was to bring the city to repentance so God could spare the city. Jonah wanted the Ninevites destroyed, but He expected God would spare it. So when we come to the idea of women in ministry, the prophetesses of the OT & NT, show us that thre were exceptions andGod certainly has the right to make exceptions. In fact, our salvation is an exception to the law, His law, and it is an exception that He worked out in our behalf.

By: Cheryl Schatz

Cheryl Schatz — Mon, 25 May 2009 09:36:10 +0000

Lin,
I very much agree with you that the passage has much more than the woman question. The body of Christ desperately needs body ministry and when this ministry is squelched by pastors who believe that only the seminary educated person is allowed to serve, or by teaching that keeps Christians as pew sitters, the church needs a real change so that ministry becomes a thing that fits every Christian not just an elite group.

By: Lin

Lin — Sun, 24 May 2009 18:30:21 +0000

Cheryl, Thanks for breaking this down into a filter. It is much easier to understand the full meaning and the previous teaching of the ‘body and members’ is not lost. It becomes obvious that Paul does not contradict himself in chapter 14. Since we cannot find the ‘law’ in scripture, it is obvious he is quoting.

This passage has more to teach us than just the woman question. What are we doing in churches that have one guy preaching to us every week? Where others are not using or even desiring gifts to be used to edify the Body. We are sorely lacking in this respect in most churches. Most members of the Body are mere spectators!

By: Cheryl Schatz

Cheryl Schatz — Sun, 24 May 2009 13:53:21 +0000

Thanks for catching the typo, Don!

By: Don

Don — Sun, 24 May 2009 12:36:06 +0000

Typo: Chloe.

I agree with your points.

Also, the “law/Torah says” is a ref. to the so-called oral law of the Pharisees. The “says” is an important clue as Scripture/Tanakh was written, while the oral Torah at this time was not, it was later written down about 200 AD.