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	<title>Comments on: A Christmas post - does the star of Bethlehem belong to satan or God?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/12/03/a-christmas-post-does-the-star-of-bethlehem-belong-to-satan-or-god/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/12/03/a-christmas-post-does-the-star-of-bethlehem-belong-to-satan-or-god/</link>
	<description>This blog is for dialogue on the issue of women in ministry and the freedom for women to teach the bible in a public setting.  It is also for questions and answers on our DVD entitled "Women in Ministry: Silenced or Set Free?"  This 4 DVD set answers the hard passages of scripture that seem to restrict women's ministry.</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2010 02:30:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Cheryl Schatz</title>
		<link>http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/12/03/a-christmas-post-does-the-star-of-bethlehem-belong-to-satan-or-god/comment-page-1/#comment-6052</link>
		<dc:creator>Cheryl Schatz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Apr 2009 03:45:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strivetoenter.com/wim/?p=747#comment-6052</guid>
		<description>Jasmin,
Welcome!

No, Christians do not believe that Jesus was an "angel" prior to being on the earth.  However Jehovah's Witnesses believe that, however it isn't a doctrine that can be found in the scriptures.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jasmin,<br />
Welcome!</p>
<p>No, Christians do not believe that Jesus was an &#8220;angel&#8221; prior to being on the earth.  However Jehovah&#8217;s Witnesses believe that, however it isn&#8217;t a doctrine that can be found in the scriptures.</p>
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		<title>By: Jasmin</title>
		<link>http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/12/03/a-christmas-post-does-the-star-of-bethlehem-belong-to-satan-or-god/comment-page-1/#comment-6050</link>
		<dc:creator>Jasmin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 14:35:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strivetoenter.com/wim/?p=747#comment-6050</guid>
		<description>I am confused. Are you saying that Jesus existed as a angel prior to being on earth?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am confused. Are you saying that Jesus existed as a angel prior to being on earth?</p>
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		<title>By: Cheryl Schatz</title>
		<link>http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/12/03/a-christmas-post-does-the-star-of-bethlehem-belong-to-satan-or-god/comment-page-1/#comment-5618</link>
		<dc:creator>Cheryl Schatz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 06:28:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strivetoenter.com/wim/?p=747#comment-5618</guid>
		<description>tyrone,

Welcome!

The interesting thing about "The Angel of the LORD" is that he is the Old Testament manifestation of the preincarnate Christ.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tyrone,</p>
<p>Welcome!</p>
<p>The interesting thing about &#8220;The Angel of the LORD&#8221; is that he is the Old Testament manifestation of the preincarnate Christ.</p>
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		<title>By: tyrone ferrara</title>
		<link>http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/12/03/a-christmas-post-does-the-star-of-bethlehem-belong-to-satan-or-god/comment-page-1/#comment-5617</link>
		<dc:creator>tyrone ferrara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 04:33:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strivetoenter.com/wim/?p=747#comment-5617</guid>
		<description>I believe the star was the angel of the Lord that came upon the shepherds in the field and "shone round about them" (Luke 2:8,9).  Just like the angle of the Lord  that led the camp of Israel trough the wilderness, the angel looked like a pillar of fire (Exodus 14:19, 24).   Also like the angel of the Lord that appeared to Moses as flame of fire out of the midst of a bush (Exodus 3:2).  

Nowadays, an angel in this form would be describe as a UFO - something glowing and flying.  Chew on that one for a bit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe the star was the angel of the Lord that came upon the shepherds in the field and &#8220;shone round about them&#8221; (Luke 2:8,9).  Just like the angle of the Lord  that led the camp of Israel trough the wilderness, the angel looked like a pillar of fire (Exodus 14:19, 24).   Also like the angel of the Lord that appeared to Moses as flame of fire out of the midst of a bush (Exodus 3:2).  </p>
<p>Nowadays, an angel in this form would be describe as a UFO - something glowing and flying.  Chew on that one for a bit.</p>
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		<title>By: Cheryl Schatz</title>
		<link>http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/12/03/a-christmas-post-does-the-star-of-bethlehem-belong-to-satan-or-god/comment-page-1/#comment-5147</link>
		<dc:creator>Cheryl Schatz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Dec 2008 05:27:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strivetoenter.com/wim/?p=747#comment-5147</guid>
		<description>Ordinary Mystic,

What evidence is there that the star led the magi to Jesus?  The magi did not want to kill Jesus, so what was the purpose of the star leading the magi?  Is satan interested in bringing financial blessing to Jesus?  No.  

If satan wanted to kill Jesus by sending the star, he should not have brought the star from the east.  Herod was not in the east.  None of this makes any sense nor is there any evidence in the text that the star led anyone whose purpose it was to harm Jesus.  The star did not appear for Herod or lead Herod to Egypt where Jesus and his parents were to be sent.

It is God's Sovereign design to give the magi the star once again after they went to Jerusalem and were guided by the bible.  The Jewish scholars were called into action to report on the prophesy regarding the birth place of the Messiah.  The magi believed this report and as they were on their way in faith, they were given the guidance of the star once again that gave them the specific location of the child.  Faith in the prophesy was the evidence that the magi believed in God and God fulfilled their faith by leading them to the individual location where his Son was living.

You said:

&lt;blockquote&gt;While the scruptures do not say that the magi were led to Jerusalem, for some reason it didn’t lead them to the child as it did after they went to Jerusalem.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
We do know that the star didn't lead them to Jerusalem, but we also know that faith in the scriptures led them in the direction of Bethlehem.  What a wonderful opportunity they had to have faith in what God had prophesied.

You said:

&lt;blockquote&gt;So either it did lead them to Jerusalem or it led them to the general area where they needed to start asking more questions. Why ?
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Neither is an option.  The scripture is specific.  It says that the star was seen in the east.  The next time it appeared is when they were on their way to Bethlehem.  There is no evidence at all that the star led them to Jerusalem.

You asked:

&lt;blockquote&gt;The scriptures specifically state that Jehovah sent an angel to the magi in a dream. But nowhere does it associated Jehovah with the star.  Why not?
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Jehovah is directly associated with the magi by his giving them divine direction.  We don't need to have the scriptures say that the star was the star of the Messiah (they say we say "his" star in the east - the star of the Messiah) when the ones who were led by God specifically stated that it was his star.  Jehovah God did not contradict their testimony.  While the star led the magi to Jesus, Jehovah God led them back home another way.  It was a perfect plan orchestrated by God himself to fulfill the scriptures that say that his Son would be called out of Egypt.  Praise God that when he calls he provides the ways and means to fulfill the call.

You said:

&lt;blockquote&gt;The magi followed the star as part of their spirituality, not because they “obeyed Jehovah”. 
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
This is not true.  Their understanding of the scriptures show that they were familiar with the prophecy of the coming of the Messiah.  They believed the prophecy and came to Israel.  They believed the next prophecy they heard by going to Bethlehem.  They also believed Jehovah's message by believing the angel and obeying.  Everything they did regarding the Messiah was an act of faith and an act of obedience to the light that they had been given.

Since that star appeared about two years before the magi saw Herod, it is reasonable to understand that Jesus was 15 - 24 months old at the time depending on whether the star appeared at his conception or at his birth.  The issue for us now is not about the traditions that surround Christmas, but what will we do with Jesus?  Will we obey the Father and accept Jesus as God's gift to us?  Will we obey the Father by honoring the Son in the same way that we honor the Father as Jesus said must happen in order to honor the Father.

I have chosen to honor Jesus and come to him for forgiveness of my sin.  He has been given the right to forgive sin and to cleanse us from our sin and then bring us back to the Father in a reconciled relationship.  If we follow the tradition that says we are not to honor Jesus and we dishonor the Father by withholding the true and proper honor that belongs to Jesus, we are not acting by faith in the word of God.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ordinary Mystic,</p>
<p>What evidence is there that the star led the magi to Jesus?  The magi did not want to kill Jesus, so what was the purpose of the star leading the magi?  Is satan interested in bringing financial blessing to Jesus?  No.  </p>
<p>If satan wanted to kill Jesus by sending the star, he should not have brought the star from the east.  Herod was not in the east.  None of this makes any sense nor is there any evidence in the text that the star led anyone whose purpose it was to harm Jesus.  The star did not appear for Herod or lead Herod to Egypt where Jesus and his parents were to be sent.</p>
<p>It is God&#8217;s Sovereign design to give the magi the star once again after they went to Jerusalem and were guided by the bible.  The Jewish scholars were called into action to report on the prophesy regarding the birth place of the Messiah.  The magi believed this report and as they were on their way in faith, they were given the guidance of the star once again that gave them the specific location of the child.  Faith in the prophesy was the evidence that the magi believed in God and God fulfilled their faith by leading them to the individual location where his Son was living.</p>
<p>You said:</p>
<blockquote><p>While the scruptures do not say that the magi were led to Jerusalem, for some reason it didn’t lead them to the child as it did after they went to Jerusalem.
</p></blockquote>
<p>We do know that the star didn&#8217;t lead them to Jerusalem, but we also know that faith in the scriptures led them in the direction of Bethlehem.  What a wonderful opportunity they had to have faith in what God had prophesied.</p>
<p>You said:</p>
<blockquote><p>So either it did lead them to Jerusalem or it led them to the general area where they needed to start asking more questions. Why ?
</p></blockquote>
<p>Neither is an option.  The scripture is specific.  It says that the star was seen in the east.  The next time it appeared is when they were on their way to Bethlehem.  There is no evidence at all that the star led them to Jerusalem.</p>
<p>You asked:</p>
<blockquote><p>The scriptures specifically state that Jehovah sent an angel to the magi in a dream. But nowhere does it associated Jehovah with the star.  Why not?
</p></blockquote>
<p>Jehovah is directly associated with the magi by his giving them divine direction.  We don&#8217;t need to have the scriptures say that the star was the star of the Messiah (they say we say &#8220;his&#8221; star in the east - the star of the Messiah) when the ones who were led by God specifically stated that it was his star.  Jehovah God did not contradict their testimony.  While the star led the magi to Jesus, Jehovah God led them back home another way.  It was a perfect plan orchestrated by God himself to fulfill the scriptures that say that his Son would be called out of Egypt.  Praise God that when he calls he provides the ways and means to fulfill the call.</p>
<p>You said:</p>
<blockquote><p>The magi followed the star as part of their spirituality, not because they “obeyed Jehovah”.
</p></blockquote>
<p>This is not true.  Their understanding of the scriptures show that they were familiar with the prophecy of the coming of the Messiah.  They believed the prophecy and came to Israel.  They believed the next prophecy they heard by going to Bethlehem.  They also believed Jehovah&#8217;s message by believing the angel and obeying.  Everything they did regarding the Messiah was an act of faith and an act of obedience to the light that they had been given.</p>
<p>Since that star appeared about two years before the magi saw Herod, it is reasonable to understand that Jesus was 15 - 24 months old at the time depending on whether the star appeared at his conception or at his birth.  The issue for us now is not about the traditions that surround Christmas, but what will we do with Jesus?  Will we obey the Father and accept Jesus as God&#8217;s gift to us?  Will we obey the Father by honoring the Son in the same way that we honor the Father as Jesus said must happen in order to honor the Father.</p>
<p>I have chosen to honor Jesus and come to him for forgiveness of my sin.  He has been given the right to forgive sin and to cleanse us from our sin and then bring us back to the Father in a reconciled relationship.  If we follow the tradition that says we are not to honor Jesus and we dishonor the Father by withholding the true and proper honor that belongs to Jesus, we are not acting by faith in the word of God.</p>
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		<title>By: Ordinary Mystic</title>
		<link>http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/12/03/a-christmas-post-does-the-star-of-bethlehem-belong-to-satan-or-god/comment-page-1/#comment-5146</link>
		<dc:creator>Ordinary Mystic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 18:31:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strivetoenter.com/wim/?p=747#comment-5146</guid>
		<description>I was involved with the Jehovah's Witnesses for a number of years and am very familiar with their view of the star of Bethlehem.  My position now is that it serves no purpose to be dogmatic one way or the other.  That said, I can still see the logic behind interpreting the star as being a tool of Satan. 
While the scruptures do not say that the magi were led to Jerusalem, for some reason it didn't lead them to the child as it did after they went to Jerusalem. So either it did lead them to Jerusalem or it led them to the general area where they needed to start asking more questions. Why ?

The scriptures specifically state that Jehovah sent an angel to the magi in a dream. But nowhere does it associated Jehovah with the star.  Why not?

But this all presupposes that there is a sharp division between belief in Jehovah and all other beliefs.  The magi followed the star as part of their spirituality, not because they "obeyed Jehovah".  That their spirituality resulted in their recognizing that an important event had occurred shows the validity of their spirituality.   They could look for signs in the heavens and also within dreams.  Their motives were pure. They didn't need to be Jewish. 
But dogma serves no purpose except to divide. Christmas is not solely the realm of Christianity, but embraces many forms of spiritualty as evidence by the eclectic mix of traditions, from pagan tree decorating and solstice observance to high mass and baby-in-a-manger worship. (You do know that Jesus was not a babe in a manger when the magi visited, right?)   
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was involved with the Jehovah&#8217;s Witnesses for a number of years and am very familiar with their view of the star of Bethlehem.  My position now is that it serves no purpose to be dogmatic one way or the other.  That said, I can still see the logic behind interpreting the star as being a tool of Satan. <br />
While the scruptures do not say that the magi were led to Jerusalem, for some reason it didn&#8217;t lead them to the child as it did after they went to Jerusalem. So either it did lead them to Jerusalem or it led them to the general area where they needed to start asking more questions. Why ?</p>
<p>The scriptures specifically state that Jehovah sent an angel to the magi in a dream. But nowhere does it associated Jehovah with the star.  Why not?</p>
<p>But this all presupposes that there is a sharp division between belief in Jehovah and all other beliefs.  The magi followed the star as part of their spirituality, not because they &#8220;obeyed Jehovah&#8221;.  That their spirituality resulted in their recognizing that an important event had occurred shows the validity of their spirituality.   They could look for signs in the heavens and also within dreams.  Their motives were pure. They didn&#8217;t need to be Jewish. <br />
But dogma serves no purpose except to divide. Christmas is not solely the realm of Christianity, but embraces many forms of spiritualty as evidence by the eclectic mix of traditions, from pagan tree decorating and solstice observance to high mass and baby-in-a-manger worship. (You do know that Jesus was not a babe in a manger when the magi visited, right?)   </p>
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		<title>By: Paula</title>
		<link>http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/12/03/a-christmas-post-does-the-star-of-bethlehem-belong-to-satan-or-god/comment-page-1/#comment-5143</link>
		<dc:creator>Paula</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 12:04:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strivetoenter.com/wim/?p=747#comment-5143</guid>
		<description>Cheryl, the plugin is called &lt;a href="http://mk.netgenes.org/my-plugins/mcecomments/" rel="nofollow"&gt;MCEcomments&lt;/a&gt;.

Tiro, check Preferences--&#62;Security, Web Content. The "Enable JavaScript" box should be checked.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cheryl, the plugin is called <a href="http://mk.netgenes.org/my-plugins/mcecomments/" rel="nofollow">MCEcomments</a>.</p>
<p>Tiro, check Preferences&#8211;&gt;Security, Web Content. The &#8220;Enable JavaScript&#8221; box should be checked.</p>
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		<title>By: tiro</title>
		<link>http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/12/03/a-christmas-post-does-the-star-of-bethlehem-belong-to-satan-or-god/comment-page-1/#comment-5142</link>
		<dc:creator>tiro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 03:50:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strivetoenter.com/wim/?p=747#comment-5142</guid>
		<description>No javascript is part of Safari, one cannot disable it, I don't think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No javascript is part of Safari, one cannot disable it, I don&#8217;t think.</p>
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		<title>By: Cheryl Schatz</title>
		<link>http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/12/03/a-christmas-post-does-the-star-of-bethlehem-belong-to-satan-or-god/comment-page-1/#comment-5141</link>
		<dc:creator>Cheryl Schatz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 03:01:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strivetoenter.com/wim/?p=747#comment-5141</guid>
		<description>Paula,

You can send me a link to the editor.  I'll see if I can get my son to have a look if he has time.

tiro, I don't find this silly stuff at all, so it stays, k?  :o</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paula,</p>
<p>You can send me a link to the editor.  I&#8217;ll see if I can get my son to have a look if he has time.</p>
<p>tiro, I don&#8217;t find this silly stuff at all, so it stays, k?  <img src='http://strivetoenter.com/wim/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_surprised.gif' alt=':o' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Paula</title>
		<link>http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/12/03/a-christmas-post-does-the-star-of-bethlehem-belong-to-satan-or-god/comment-page-1/#comment-5140</link>
		<dc:creator>Paula</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 02:50:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strivetoenter.com/wim/?p=747#comment-5140</guid>
		<description>Tiro, do you have javascript disabled in your browser?

Cheryl, there's a good WP plugin for the wysiwyg comment editor, let me know if you'd like to try it. I had code before that stopped working with the current upgrade and replaced it. But it's working for me (Firefox).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tiro, do you have javascript disabled in your browser?</p>
<p>Cheryl, there&#8217;s a good WP plugin for the wysiwyg comment editor, let me know if you&#8217;d like to try it. I had code before that stopped working with the current upgrade and replaced it. But it&#8217;s working for me (Firefox).</p>
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		<title>By: tiro</title>
		<link>http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/12/03/a-christmas-post-does-the-star-of-bethlehem-belong-to-satan-or-god/comment-page-1/#comment-5139</link>
		<dc:creator>tiro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 02:38:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strivetoenter.com/wim/?p=747#comment-5139</guid>
		<description>none work for me... not even BOLD.  boohoo   :(</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>none work for me&#8230; not even BOLD.  boohoo   <img src='http://strivetoenter.com/wim/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':(' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: tiro</title>
		<link>http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/12/03/a-christmas-post-does-the-star-of-bethlehem-belong-to-satan-or-god/comment-page-1/#comment-5138</link>
		<dc:creator>tiro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 02:37:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strivetoenter.com/wim/?p=747#comment-5138</guid>
		<description>LOL glad I'm only a small distraction.  you can delete all this silly stuff if you wish.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LOL glad I&#8217;m only a small distraction.  you can delete all this silly stuff if you wish.  </p>
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		<title>By: Cheryl Schatz</title>
		<link>http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/12/03/a-christmas-post-does-the-star-of-bethlehem-belong-to-satan-or-god/comment-page-1/#comment-5137</link>
		<dc:creator>Cheryl Schatz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 02:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strivetoenter.com/wim/?p=747#comment-5137</guid>
		<description>Yup &lt;strong&gt;bold&lt;/strong&gt; works.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yup <strong>bold</strong> works.</p>
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		<title>By: Cheryl Schatz</title>
		<link>http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/12/03/a-christmas-post-does-the-star-of-bethlehem-belong-to-satan-or-god/comment-page-1/#comment-5136</link>
		<dc:creator>Cheryl Schatz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 02:29:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strivetoenter.com/wim/?p=747#comment-5136</guid>
		<description>And tiro, it is not a &lt;strong&gt;big&lt;/strong&gt; distraction.  I've had worse ;)  If all my problems were this small...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And tiro, it is not a <strong>big</strong> distraction.  I&#8217;ve had worse ;)  If all my problems were this small&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Cheryl Schatz</title>
		<link>http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/12/03/a-christmas-post-does-the-star-of-bethlehem-belong-to-satan-or-god/comment-page-1/#comment-5135</link>
		<dc:creator>Cheryl Schatz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 02:26:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strivetoenter.com/wim/?p=747#comment-5135</guid>
		<description>Sometimes the codes at the top don't work.  I don't know how to fix it.  Bold works though, or at least it did :)

Glad you got your smile back at least, eh?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sometimes the codes at the top don&#8217;t work.  I don&#8217;t know how to fix it.  Bold works though, or at least it did <img src='http://strivetoenter.com/wim/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Glad you got your smile back at least, eh?</p>
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