Comments on: Satan the liar or truth teller? http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/08/24/satan-the-liar/ This blog is for dialogue on the issue of women in ministry and the freedom for women to teach the bible in a public setting. It is also for questions and answers on our DVD entitled "Women in Ministry: Silenced or Set Free?" This 4 DVD set answers the hard passages of scripture that seem to restrict women's ministry. Tue, 06 Jan 2009 03:45:58 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: Cheryl Schatz http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/08/24/satan-the-liar/#comment-4192 Cheryl Schatz Mon, 25 Aug 2008 14:45:23 +0000 http://strivetoenter.com/wim/?p=310#comment-4192 Great comments everyone! Great comments everyone!

]]> By: Pinklight http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/08/24/satan-the-liar/#comment-4191 Pinklight Mon, 25 Aug 2008 14:19:54 +0000 http://strivetoenter.com/wim/?p=310#comment-4191 But that was not as it were in the garden. But that was not as it were in the garden.

]]> By: Pinklight http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/08/24/satan-the-liar/#comment-4190 Pinklight Mon, 25 Aug 2008 14:19:03 +0000 http://strivetoenter.com/wim/?p=310#comment-4190 The law is written on our hearts so we 'know' the difference between good and evil. The law is written on our hearts so we ‘know’ the difference between good and evil.

]]> By: Don http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/08/24/satan-the-liar/#comment-4188 Don Mon, 25 Aug 2008 13:59:39 +0000 http://strivetoenter.com/wim/?p=310#comment-4188 On the specific question, one needs to know what is meant by "knowing good and evil" and there are various answers I have seen. 1. The Law tells us how to know what is good and what is evil. 2. Everything is either good or evil, so this is a reference to knowing everything. There are other possibilities. On the specific question, one needs to know what is meant by “knowing good and evil” and there are various answers I have seen.
1. The Law tells us how to know what is good and what is evil.
2. Everything is either good or evil, so this is a reference to knowing everything.
There are other possibilities.

]]> By: Paula http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/08/24/satan-the-liar/#comment-4187 Paula Mon, 25 Aug 2008 13:11:50 +0000 http://strivetoenter.com/wim/?p=310#comment-4187 First, a look at context from an interlinear, and it shows me a chiasm: <blockquote>A. You cannot hear my word X. You are like your father, Satan, the liar A'. You do not believe me because I speak truth. </blockquote> The literal rendering of 8:44 in Greek: <blockquote>you out of the father the slanderer are, and the desires of the father of you you are willing to do; that one murderer was from beginning, and in the truth not stands, that not is truth in him; whenever he may speak the lie out of the own he speaks, that liar he is and the father of it </blockquote> [the word "nature" isn't there; just had to tease you about that, Cheryl! ] While we have to extrapolate what "truth is not in him" entails, we should also contrast it with Jesus being Truth itself. And another question is: Does God really "know evil"? If Jesus is Truth, can he "know" lies? In other words, did the serpent really say a truth when he said "like God, <strong>knowing</strong> good <strong>and evil</strong>"? Certainly God is omniscient, but in what sense did the serpent mean "to know"? Knowledge about, or an experience within? First, a look at context from an interlinear, and it shows me a chiasm:

A. You cannot hear my word
X. You are like your father, Satan, the liar
A’. You do not believe me because I speak truth.

The literal rendering of 8:44 in Greek:

you out of the father the slanderer are, and the desires of the father of you you are willing to do; that one murderer was from beginning, and in the truth not stands, that not is truth in him; whenever he may speak the lie out of the own he speaks, that liar he is and the father of it

[the word "nature" isn't there; just had to tease you about that, Cheryl! ]

While we have to extrapolate what “truth is not in him” entails, we should also contrast it with Jesus being Truth itself.

And another question is: Does God really “know evil”? If Jesus is Truth, can he “know” lies? In other words, did the serpent really say a truth when he said “like God, knowing good and evil“?

Certainly God is omniscient, but in what sense did the serpent mean “to know”? Knowledge about, or an experience within?

]]> By: Cheryl Schatz http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/08/24/satan-the-liar/#comment-4186 Cheryl Schatz Mon, 25 Aug 2008 12:59:01 +0000 http://strivetoenter.com/wim/?p=310#comment-4186 Don, A very good comment about the evidence of satan is to be ignored.  It certainly cannot be relied on.  I also think that we can learn from satan's lies to see where Eve was deceived.  His evidence of course disqualifies him from being any kind of truthful witness, but his evidence will help us to see Eve's temptation and her ultimate fall as she was deceived by his words.  The bible says that we are not unaware of his schemes.  We need to be aware of how he works and how he twists so that we recognize the "signature of satan" whenever we see the twists and lies.  Those who practice this sin (not those who sin and then repent) are following after the father of lies. Don,
A very good comment about the evidence of satan is to be ignored.  It certainly cannot be relied on. 

I also think that we can learn from satan’s lies to see where Eve was deceived.  His evidence of course disqualifies him from being any kind of truthful witness, but his evidence will help us to see Eve’s temptation and her ultimate fall as she was deceived by his words.  The bible says that we are not unaware of his schemes.  We need to be aware of how he works and how he twists so that we recognize the “signature of satan” whenever we see the twists and lies.  Those who practice this sin (not those who sin and then repent) are following after the father of lies.

]]> By: Don http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/08/24/satan-the-liar/#comment-4185 Don Mon, 25 Aug 2008 12:47:49 +0000 http://strivetoenter.com/wim/?p=310#comment-4185 I know not to trust satan and my non-trust extends to not thinking he needs to be consistent with my understanding of logic.  There are logic puzzles where an island is inhabited by 2 types of people, those that always tell the truth and those that always lie, one can ask a tricky question such as "If I were to ask you about this, what would you say?"  The truth teller tells the truth and the liar lies about the lie he would say and so tells the truth in the puzzle.  But I do not think satan is limited in this way. Another way to think of it is the evidence of satan is to be ignored, one cannot rely on it one way or the other. I know not to trust satan and my non-trust extends to not thinking he needs to be consistent with my understanding of logic. 

There are logic puzzles where an island is inhabited by 2 types of people, those that always tell the truth and those that always lie, one can ask a tricky question such as “If I were to ask you about this, what would you say?”  The truth teller tells the truth and the liar lies about the lie he would say and so tells the truth in the puzzle.  But I do not think satan is limited in this way.

Another way to think of it is the evidence of satan is to be ignored, one cannot rely on it one way or the other.

]]> By: Cheryl Schatz http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/08/24/satan-the-liar/#comment-4184 Cheryl Schatz Mon, 25 Aug 2008 12:46:42 +0000 http://strivetoenter.com/wim/?p=310#comment-4184 Paula, You are always good in boiling things down.  Maybe you could give your thoughts on what Jesus is keying in on with "in him". Paula,

You are always good in boiling things down.  Maybe you could give your thoughts on what Jesus is keying in on with “in him”.

]]> By: Paula http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/08/24/satan-the-liar/#comment-4183 Paula Mon, 25 Aug 2008 12:41:41 +0000 http://strivetoenter.com/wim/?p=310#comment-4183 I think the key phrase here is "in him". Yeah, I can be cryptic too! I think the key phrase here is “in him”.

Yeah, I can be cryptic too!

]]> By: Pinklight http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/08/24/satan-the-liar/#comment-4182 Pinklight Mon, 25 Aug 2008 12:19:30 +0000 http://strivetoenter.com/wim/?p=310#comment-4182 I have been reading your last post 1 sentence at a time and then responding. 'But when he speaks of God not as a quote but of his own words is it possible for this to be truth since Jesus said there is no truth in him?' Not possible. The only time the truth can leave his mouth is when he is quoting scripture. Whoa! I have been reading your last post 1 sentence at a time and then responding.

‘But when he speaks of God not as a quote but of his own words is it possible for this to be truth since Jesus said there is no truth in him?’

Not possible. The only time the truth can leave his mouth is when he is quoting scripture. Whoa!

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