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	<title>Comments on: The silence of Adam was it a sin?</title>
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	<description>This blog is for dialogue on the issue of women in ministry and the freedom for women to teach the bible in a public setting.  It is also for questions and answers on our DVD entitled "Women in Ministry: Silenced or Set Free?"  This 4 DVD set answers the hard passages of scripture that seem to restrict women's ministry.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 02:44:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Cheryl Schatz</title>
		<link>http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/08/03/silence-of-adam-sin/#comment-4043</link>
		<dc:creator>Cheryl Schatz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 19:17:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Charis, amen!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Charis, amen!</p>
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		<title>By: Charis</title>
		<link>http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/08/03/silence-of-adam-sin/#comment-4042</link>
		<dc:creator>Charis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 12:31:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strivetoenter.com/wim/?p=269#comment-4042</guid>
		<description>Hi Cheryl,

That was very clear and I agree with you.  I could read everything that you wrote that Adam did not do and see my own failure and treachery as "keeper of the home" and "help meet" to my husband (although, unlike Adam, I think I was deceived by all the teaching about women keeping quiet and my MISunderstanding of submission).

The Greek word translated “homemaker” (NKJV) or “housekeeper” is &lt;strong&gt;&lt;em&gt;oikouros. &lt;/em&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;This is a compound word from &lt;a href="http://cf.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G3624&#38;t=kjv" rel="nofollow"&gt;&lt;em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;oikos&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;- house, household, family; and &lt;strong&gt;&lt;em&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0058%3Aentry%3D%2323920" rel="nofollow"&gt;ouros&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;- a guard, be “ware”, guardian, a watcher, a warden. So, the word ” oikouros” translated “keepers at home”  carries the meaning of watchman a similar meaning to the Hebrew &lt;em&gt;shamar &lt;/em&gt;used of Adam's "keeper" assignment.  

I think "KEEPER of the home" has nothing to do with domestic servitude.  Making it about domestic servitude really robs women, children, husbands, and the body of Christ and is a form of deception and treachery from what source?  From the same source as the deception in the garden: none other than "the father of lies".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Cheryl,</p>
<p>That was very clear and I agree with you.  I could read everything that you wrote that Adam did not do and see my own failure and treachery as &#8220;keeper of the home&#8221; and &#8220;help meet&#8221; to my husband (although, unlike Adam, I think I was deceived by all the teaching about women keeping quiet and my MISunderstanding of submission).</p>
<p>The Greek word translated “homemaker” (NKJV) or “housekeeper” is <strong><em>oikouros. </em></strong>This is a compound word from <a href="http://cf.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G3624&amp;t=kjv" rel="nofollow"><em><strong>oikos</strong></em></a>- house, household, family; and <strong><em><a href="http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0058%3Aentry%3D%2323920" rel="nofollow">ouros</a></em></strong>- a guard, be “ware”, guardian, a watcher, a warden. So, the word ” oikouros” translated “keepers at home”  carries the meaning of watchman a similar meaning to the Hebrew <em>shamar </em>used of Adam&#8217;s &#8220;keeper&#8221; assignment.  </p>
<p>I think &#8220;KEEPER of the home&#8221; has nothing to do with domestic servitude.  Making it about domestic servitude really robs women, children, husbands, and the body of Christ and is a form of deception and treachery from what source?  From the same source as the deception in the garden: none other than &#8220;the father of lies&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Cheryl</title>
		<link>http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/08/03/silence-of-adam-sin/#comment-4031</link>
		<dc:creator>Cheryl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 15:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strivetoenter.com/wim/?p=269#comment-4031</guid>
		<description>Ron, well it is noteworthy that God &lt;strong&gt;first of all&lt;/strong&gt; said "&lt;strong&gt;Because you have listened&lt;/strong&gt; to the voice of your wife, and ..." that the first sin was listening and doing nothing.  So technically the first sin came from Adam and not Eve.  His failure to be a Watchman was the first sin and after letting in the enemy take his wife captive, he joined her captivity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ron, well it is noteworthy that God <strong>first of all</strong> said &#8220;<strong>Because you have listened</strong> to the voice of your wife, and &#8230;&#8221; that the first sin was listening and doing nothing.  So technically the first sin came from Adam and not Eve.  His failure to be a Watchman was the first sin and after letting in the enemy take his wife captive, he joined her captivity.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron</title>
		<link>http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/08/03/silence-of-adam-sin/#comment-4030</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 14:52:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strivetoenter.com/wim/?p=269#comment-4030</guid>
		<description>Another observation then surfaces; that Adam's initial and &lt;em&gt;root&lt;/em&gt; sin was not "eating from the tree", as is popularly thought?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another observation then surfaces; that Adam&#8217;s initial and <em>root</em> sin was not &#8220;eating from the tree&#8221;, as is popularly thought?</p>
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		<title>By: Cheryl</title>
		<link>http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/08/03/silence-of-adam-sin/#comment-4024</link>
		<dc:creator>Cheryl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 05:46:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Ron,

That was very thought-provoking!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ron,</p>
<p>That was very thought-provoking!</p>
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		<title>By: Ron</title>
		<link>http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/08/03/silence-of-adam-sin/#comment-4021</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 05:29:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strivetoenter.com/wim/?p=269#comment-4021</guid>
		<description>I wonder if there is any other lesson for us today? While, "we cannot set ourselves up as judge and jury of others", as Cheryl rightly observes, do those within the "commissioned" leadership of the Church today also stand in a place of accountability to cry out about the merchandising and abuse of the Gospel, as some are doing? Paul certainly did that in his letters to Timothy and Titus, even naming names. It seems that those with influence who are not deceived are too often silent because that very position of influence could be threatened.

Cheryl has enough on her plate not to "go there", but perhaps for some, not accusing Adam on this issue might justify more than their position regarding gender.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder if there is any other lesson for us today? While, &#8220;we cannot set ourselves up as judge and jury of others&#8221;, as Cheryl rightly observes, do those within the &#8220;commissioned&#8221; leadership of the Church today also stand in a place of accountability to cry out about the merchandising and abuse of the Gospel, as some are doing? Paul certainly did that in his letters to Timothy and Titus, even naming names. It seems that those with influence who are not deceived are too often silent because that very position of influence could be threatened.</p>
<p>Cheryl has enough on her plate not to &#8220;go there&#8221;, but perhaps for some, not accusing Adam on this issue might justify more than their position regarding gender.</p>
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		<title>By: Don</title>
		<link>http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/08/03/silence-of-adam-sin/#comment-3988</link>
		<dc:creator>Don</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 20:10:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Yes, it is a good idea to see how one is like each of the characters in a Bible story.  When they fail, how do I fail like them?  In this case, when the man did not speak up, how do I not speak up when I should?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, it is a good idea to see how one is like each of the characters in a Bible story.  When they fail, how do I fail like them?  In this case, when the man did not speak up, how do I not speak up when I should?</p>
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		<title>By: Cheryl</title>
		<link>http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/08/03/silence-of-adam-sin/#comment-3987</link>
		<dc:creator>Cheryl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 17:54:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strivetoenter.com/wim/?p=269#comment-3987</guid>
		<description>Don,

I wanted to make it perfectly clear for everyone else reading this post and the comments that Adam was without excuse.

As far as judging the sins of omission, we cannot set ourselves up as judge and jury of others.  God is the ultimate judge.  We are to judge ourselves and test ourselves so that we can stand before God without shame.  My post was not mean to be an indictment of anyone else but Adam.  At the same time I set myself up as a judge of my own inadequacies.  Where is it that I should have spoken up when I was silent?  What happened to Adam is a strong warning for me to be faithful.  God doesn't just look on my sins of commission but he sees what I know and understand but have failed to share with others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don,</p>
<p>I wanted to make it perfectly clear for everyone else reading this post and the comments that Adam was without excuse.</p>
<p>As far as judging the sins of omission, we cannot set ourselves up as judge and jury of others.  God is the ultimate judge.  We are to judge ourselves and test ourselves so that we can stand before God without shame.  My post was not mean to be an indictment of anyone else but Adam.  At the same time I set myself up as a judge of my own inadequacies.  Where is it that I should have spoken up when I was silent?  What happened to Adam is a strong warning for me to be faithful.  God doesn&#8217;t just look on my sins of commission but he sees what I know and understand but have failed to share with others.</p>
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		<title>By: Don</title>
		<link>http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/08/03/silence-of-adam-sin/#comment-3986</link>
		<dc:creator>Don</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 17:46:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I agreed with your analysis about the sins of the man in the garden, it is mine also.  I was just pointing out that some aspects of sins of omission are debatable, where this is not the case with sins of commission.  The man was not guarding the front door when the serpent sneaked in the back door, they were all in the same place.  My door example was just to show there may not be a black and white ability to decide in all cases vis-a-vis sins of omission.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agreed with your analysis about the sins of the man in the garden, it is mine also.  I was just pointing out that some aspects of sins of omission are debatable, where this is not the case with sins of commission.  The man was not guarding the front door when the serpent sneaked in the back door, they were all in the same place.  My door example was just to show there may not be a black and white ability to decide in all cases vis-a-vis sins of omission.</p>
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		<title>By: Cheryl</title>
		<link>http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/08/03/silence-of-adam-sin/#comment-3985</link>
		<dc:creator>Cheryl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 16:57:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strivetoenter.com/wim/?p=269#comment-3985</guid>
		<description>Hi Don,
As you have said in other areas, the Hebraic way is to have the logical assumption implied.  Yet still in scripture we have enough evidence to charge Adam.  

1. We have God's charge of sin in Adam listening to the voice of his wife.

2. We have God's charge of treason (treacherous) in Hosea 6:7

3. We have Paul's confirmation that Adam was not deceived in 1 Timothy 2:14

4. We have the scripture telling us specifically that Adam was with Eve (Genesis 3:6)

Putting it all together we have a very sad state of affairs.  We have a man charged with guarding the garden but who is silent when his wife is being taken captive by the enemy.  He was not deceived by the lies of the enemy but he knew and understood the truth the entire time that his wife was being taken captive by the lie.  Adam cannot say that he was guarding the back door when the enemy came in the front door.  Adam was right there at the front door.  He failed to guard the door and he failed to sound the warning.  If he had spoken up and warned Eve of the danger, I have no doubt that things would have been different.  Yet God is still sovereign and God made provision for this deception and the sin that came into the world through Adam's failure as a watchman and Adam's deliberate choice to eat the fruit.  

I am constantly in amazement at how our Christian culture allows us to make excuses for Adam and yet we are willing to charge Eve with sin without any evidence that she added to God's word.  We need to lay the blame solely at the feet of Adam because that is the only one that God charged with treason.  God's wisdom in this matter is the key since God knew Adam's heart and all of his actions.  God gave Adam no wiggle room out of the charge of sin.  Because of this, Adam's sin stands without excuse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Don,<br />
As you have said in other areas, the Hebraic way is to have the logical assumption implied.  Yet still in scripture we have enough evidence to charge Adam.  </p>
<p>1. We have God&#8217;s charge of sin in Adam listening to the voice of his wife.</p>
<p>2. We have God&#8217;s charge of treason (treacherous) in Hosea 6:7</p>
<p>3. We have Paul&#8217;s confirmation that Adam was not deceived in 1 Timothy 2:14</p>
<p>4. We have the scripture telling us specifically that Adam was with Eve (Genesis 3:6)</p>
<p>Putting it all together we have a very sad state of affairs.  We have a man charged with guarding the garden but who is silent when his wife is being taken captive by the enemy.  He was not deceived by the lies of the enemy but he knew and understood the truth the entire time that his wife was being taken captive by the lie.  Adam cannot say that he was guarding the back door when the enemy came in the front door.  Adam was right there at the front door.  He failed to guard the door and he failed to sound the warning.  If he had spoken up and warned Eve of the danger, I have no doubt that things would have been different.  Yet God is still sovereign and God made provision for this deception and the sin that came into the world through Adam&#8217;s failure as a watchman and Adam&#8217;s deliberate choice to eat the fruit.  </p>
<p>I am constantly in amazement at how our Christian culture allows us to make excuses for Adam and yet we are willing to charge Eve with sin without any evidence that she added to God&#8217;s word.  We need to lay the blame solely at the feet of Adam because that is the only one that God charged with treason.  God&#8217;s wisdom in this matter is the key since God knew Adam&#8217;s heart and all of his actions.  God gave Adam no wiggle room out of the charge of sin.  Because of this, Adam&#8217;s sin stands without excuse.</p>
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