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	<title>Comments on: Authority and Created order</title>
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	<link>http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/06/16/authority-and-created-order/</link>
	<description>This blog is for dialogue on the issue of women in ministry and the freedom for women to teach the bible in a public setting.  It is also for questions and answers on our DVD entitled "Women in Ministry: Silenced or Set Free?"  This 4 DVD set answers the hard passages of scripture that seem to restrict women's ministry.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 03:01:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Paula</title>
		<link>http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/06/16/authority-and-created-order/#comment-3638</link>
		<dc:creator>Paula</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 20:26:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strivetoenter.com/wim/?p=248#comment-3638</guid>
		<description>Don, re. your question in post #4:

I got the information from &lt;a href="http://www.jewfaq.org/signs.htm" rel="nofollow"&gt;Judaism 101: Signs and Symbols&lt;/a&gt; under "yarmulke".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don, re. your question in post #4:</p>
<p>I got the information from <a href="http://www.jewfaq.org/signs.htm" rel="nofollow">Judaism 101: Signs and Symbols</a> under &#8220;yarmulke&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Cheryl Schatz</title>
		<link>http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/06/16/authority-and-created-order/#comment-3636</link>
		<dc:creator>Cheryl Schatz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 04:16:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strivetoenter.com/wim/?p=248#comment-3636</guid>
		<description>Greg,

&lt;blockquote&gt;"In all good conscience and common sense, I must conclude that the Almighty is more concerned with cutting away the covering on my heart than he is with what’s on my head or not on my head."&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Great summary point, Greg!

Lin,
Thanks for the link!  I will want to copy the debate and read through the thoughts as I have time.

Don,
Very logical thoughts about why one would want to use the ESV with comps.

I have just finished a week of post production work on the first DVD in the 2 DVD set on the Trinity.  I am exhausted from the long hours, but so grateful to see the project come together.  The text, music, pictures, etc all come together to make a powerful statement that I think will be very helpful for a lot of people.  The next couple of days I want to catch up on my cleaning, preparation for a couple of weeks of R &#38; R and writing articles and comments on my blog.  Thanks everyone for being so patient with me during this process.  I believe that the final product will be well worth the effort that I have put into this project.

I will have more to say later when my exhaustion leaves!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg,</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;In all good conscience and common sense, I must conclude that the Almighty is more concerned with cutting away the covering on my heart than he is with what’s on my head or not on my head.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>Great summary point, Greg!</p>
<p>Lin,<br />
Thanks for the link!  I will want to copy the debate and read through the thoughts as I have time.</p>
<p>Don,<br />
Very logical thoughts about why one would want to use the ESV with comps.</p>
<p>I have just finished a week of post production work on the first DVD in the 2 DVD set on the Trinity.  I am exhausted from the long hours, but so grateful to see the project come together.  The text, music, pictures, etc all come together to make a powerful statement that I think will be very helpful for a lot of people.  The next couple of days I want to catch up on my cleaning, preparation for a couple of weeks of R &amp; R and writing articles and comments on my blog.  Thanks everyone for being so patient with me during this process.  I believe that the final product will be well worth the effort that I have put into this project.</p>
<p>I will have more to say later when my exhaustion leaves!</p>
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		<title>By: Don Johnson</title>
		<link>http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/06/16/authority-and-created-order/#comment-3635</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 00:08:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strivetoenter.com/wim/?p=248#comment-3635</guid>
		<description>Interesting blog.

As an egalitarian, I use the ESV for 2 things:
1. To detect weaknesses in the non-egal position.
2. To sometimes quote as it cannot be accused of egal bias and is mostly pretty good, except they make all the choices they can in a non-egal way.
As a general rule, whoever REQUIRES ESV is probably non-egal, as using that translation easily is more than half way home to non-egalism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting blog.</p>
<p>As an egalitarian, I use the ESV for 2 things:<br />
1. To detect weaknesses in the non-egal position.<br />
2. To sometimes quote as it cannot be accused of egal bias and is mostly pretty good, except they make all the choices they can in a non-egal way.<br />
As a general rule, whoever REQUIRES ESV is probably non-egal, as using that translation easily is more than half way home to non-egalism.</p>
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		<title>By: Lin</title>
		<link>http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/06/16/authority-and-created-order/#comment-3634</link>
		<dc:creator>Lin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 20:17:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strivetoenter.com/wim/?p=248#comment-3634</guid>
		<description>Off topic:

This debate &lt;a href="http://q-and-a-blog.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow"&gt;http://q-and-a-blog.blogspot.com/&lt;/a&gt; is fascinating about male only elders. While I do not agree with CD Host on every single point, he makes some very important points about the ESV translation that have bothered me for a while now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Off topic:</p>
<p>This debate <a href="http://q-and-a-blog.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://q-and-a-blog.blogspot.com/</a> is fascinating about male only elders. While I do not agree with CD Host on every single point, he makes some very important points about the ESV translation that have bothered me for a while now.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Anderson</title>
		<link>http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/06/16/authority-and-created-order/#comment-3633</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 19:30:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strivetoenter.com/wim/?p=248#comment-3633</guid>
		<description>I've said this before, but I think it warrants saying again.  At day's end, the question still remains; was Paul legislating anew with his letters sent out to the various churches of his time or was he not?  I do not believe that he was.  Absolute cut and dried rules for head coverings cannot be laid down from the original texts any more than the doctrine of a pre-fall male hierarchy can be laid down.  For example, does the male infantryman in Iraq who doesn't remove his kevlar helmet to pray during an urban firefight dishonor his head?  And if so, does it also mean that the Almighty will not listen to his appeal?  Conversely, is the female soldier who doesn't remove her headgear cleared by the "rule of law" for a full hearing by God?  In all good conscience and common sense, I must conclude that the Almighty is more concerned with cutting away the covering on my heart than he is with what's on my head or not on my head.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve said this before, but I think it warrants saying again.  At day&#8217;s end, the question still remains; was Paul legislating anew with his letters sent out to the various churches of his time or was he not?  I do not believe that he was.  Absolute cut and dried rules for head coverings cannot be laid down from the original texts any more than the doctrine of a pre-fall male hierarchy can be laid down.  For example, does the male infantryman in Iraq who doesn&#8217;t remove his kevlar helmet to pray during an urban firefight dishonor his head?  And if so, does it also mean that the Almighty will not listen to his appeal?  Conversely, is the female soldier who doesn&#8217;t remove her headgear cleared by the &#8220;rule of law&#8221; for a full hearing by God?  In all good conscience and common sense, I must conclude that the Almighty is more concerned with cutting away the covering on my heart than he is with what&#8217;s on my head or not on my head.</p>
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		<title>By: Cheryl Schatz</title>
		<link>http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/06/16/authority-and-created-order/#comment-3631</link>
		<dc:creator>Cheryl Schatz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 22:48:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strivetoenter.com/wim/?p=248#comment-3631</guid>
		<description>Paula,

Great thoughts.  This is also my conclusion from the text and the context.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paula,</p>
<p>Great thoughts.  This is also my conclusion from the text and the context.</p>
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		<title>By: Cheryl Schatz</title>
		<link>http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/06/16/authority-and-created-order/#comment-3630</link>
		<dc:creator>Cheryl Schatz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 22:47:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strivetoenter.com/wim/?p=248#comment-3630</guid>
		<description>Don #2 comment,

That was well-worded.  Yes, I too believe that Paul's answer was brilliant.  The married woman was caught between a rock and a hard place because she had two "heads".  If her husband was a Jewish unbelieving man, it would be a very bad thing to force her to remove her veil.  It would have to be her decision on when was the proper time to be free from her veil.  Paul never gave the authority to her husband for the decision on whether she would wear the veil or not.  The decision was squarely on her shoulders.  This ruling alone giving the woman the authority to make the decision should remove any doubt that Paul believed that a woman was under the husband's authority.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don #2 comment,</p>
<p>That was well-worded.  Yes, I too believe that Paul&#8217;s answer was brilliant.  The married woman was caught between a rock and a hard place because she had two &#8220;heads&#8221;.  If her husband was a Jewish unbelieving man, it would be a very bad thing to force her to remove her veil.  It would have to be her decision on when was the proper time to be free from her veil.  Paul never gave the authority to her husband for the decision on whether she would wear the veil or not.  The decision was squarely on her shoulders.  This ruling alone giving the woman the authority to make the decision should remove any doubt that Paul believed that a woman was under the husband&#8217;s authority.</p>
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		<title>By: Cheryl Schatz</title>
		<link>http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/06/16/authority-and-created-order/#comment-3629</link>
		<dc:creator>Cheryl Schatz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 22:41:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strivetoenter.com/wim/?p=248#comment-3629</guid>
		<description>Lin,

It was a shock to me too to see that the translators had imported words that brought their bias into the translation.  The more I studied from the original text and less with the translations, the more shocked I became.  These texts were the ones that had caused me to be prejudiced against women just like many others were.  They had made me feel that it was a inferior thing to be a woman.  It was a very freeing thing to understand that it wasn't Paul or God who was biased against women.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lin,</p>
<p>It was a shock to me too to see that the translators had imported words that brought their bias into the translation.  The more I studied from the original text and less with the translations, the more shocked I became.  These texts were the ones that had caused me to be prejudiced against women just like many others were.  They had made me feel that it was a inferior thing to be a woman.  It was a very freeing thing to understand that it wasn&#8217;t Paul or God who was biased against women.</p>
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		<title>By: Cheryl Schatz</title>
		<link>http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/06/16/authority-and-created-order/#comment-3628</link>
		<dc:creator>Cheryl Schatz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 22:37:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strivetoenter.com/wim/?p=248#comment-3628</guid>
		<description>Don,

Check out the quotes below:


&lt;blockquote&gt;"What may at first have been a modest etiquette grew into a scrupulous rule. Some aggadic sources began to interpret this custom as a sign of woman's shame and feeling of guilt for Eve's sin,[6] while the rabbis compared exposure of a married woman's hair to the exposure of her privy parts (and forbid the recital of any blessing in the presence of a bareheaded woman).[7]

[6] Gen, R, 17:8; Er, 100b and Rashi;

[7] Ber 24a

See http://jhom.com/topics/hair/woman.html&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don,</p>
<p>Check out the quotes below:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;What may at first have been a modest etiquette grew into a scrupulous rule. Some aggadic sources began to interpret this custom as a sign of woman&#8217;s shame and feeling of guilt for Eve&#8217;s sin,[6] while the rabbis compared exposure of a married woman&#8217;s hair to the exposure of her privy parts (and forbid the recital of any blessing in the presence of a bareheaded woman).[7]</p>
<p>[6] Gen, R, 17:8; Er, 100b and Rashi;</p>
<p>[7] Ber 24a</p>
<p>See <a href="http://jhom.com/topics/hair/woman.html" rel="nofollow">http://jhom.com/topics/hair/woman.html</a></p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Don Johnson</title>
		<link>http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2008/06/16/authority-and-created-order/#comment-3627</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 21:51:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strivetoenter.com/wim/?p=248#comment-3627</guid>
		<description>Do you have a ref for Jewish women needing to cover their heads in worship for shame reasons?
 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you have a ref for Jewish women needing to cover their heads in worship for shame reasons?<br />
 </p>
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