Comments on: Patriarchal authority and free will

By: Cheryl

Cheryl — Tue, 06 May 2008 05:10:51 +0000

Molly,

Even those who understand what is clearly emotional abuse, can fall back into the pattern set by years of practice. If a wife does not have a high self-esteem so that she thinks that she somehow deserves being treated as a child so that her will is overridden and her decisions are made for her, it may take a long time to develop healthy patterns of mutual respect. When she sets boundaries to stop the abuse she can have guilty feelings and fall back into supporting his control. It certainly helps when both marriage partners recognize the faulty patterns and each work hard to bring mutual love and respect back into the marriage. Yet while it can be hard to change old patterns, it is a rewarding thing to see the positive changes.

By: Molly

Molly — Mon, 05 May 2008 17:30:39 +0000

As one who lived in a patriarchal marriage for 8 years, it is akin to emotional rape and I really appreciate you putting it that way. Except that then, I spent a lot of my private time beating myself up for feeling that way. I was trained to think that ANY time I didn’t like being “ruled over,” it was because of Gen. 3:16 (their warped interpretation of it—that a woman will always try to rebel against the rightful rule of her husband).

As such, it took me a lot longer to *get* that this was abuse than it should have. It’s hard to realize something is abuse when both of you have well-intentionedly been following God’s will to the best of your ability (and all your books, teachers, etc, tell you that patriarchy *is* God’s will)!

By: tiro3

tiro3 — Thu, 01 May 2008 17:46:38 +0000

Amazing story. thanks for the link. Certainly does make one think.

By: Cheryl

Cheryl — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 03:14:16 +0000

For those who would like to hear another story about a woman who also had to live with someone taking over her will, I was given this link http://classiclit.about.com/library/bl-etexts/kchopin/bl-kchop-story.htm It is a short story that will make you think.

By: Cindy K

Cindy K — Sun, 27 Apr 2008 22:59:03 +0000

Lin wrote: How many sermons have I heard the pastor say, the husband is the head and the wife turns the neck. See, the affirmation for her to manipulate? Or how about this one: Anything with 2 heads is a freak.

I must say that I now recognize how truly blessed I was to have not heard this stuff at all until I got involved in a shepherding-discipleship Christian/Bible-based cult. Perhaps this is why so much of this debate seems so outright silly to me. How two people can become one flesh and then shenanigans like this can be promoted is just beyond my understanding. Praise God that I was well into my marriage when I first heard this ridiculous stuff.

By: Don Johnson

Don Johnson — Sat, 26 Apr 2008 13:05:01 +0000

Any slave society lives in fear of a slave revolt. This by itself is a big reason to be egalitarian in the family. There are 1001 ways to subvert some decision that one does not agree with, there are many forms of manipulation.

By: pinklight

pinklight — Sat, 26 Apr 2008 07:36:37 +0000

Uh, I think the whole idea of this authority thing forced over and against a wife’s will is just creepy. Well when one really thinks about it, as the article above helps one to do, put on the table it just looks so creepy. Granted it’s a programmed frame of mind and traditional mentality that people fall into or are forced into…but still, it’s just hard to look at for what it is. So going to a positive note because this one is too much for me right now…

Sacrificial service on the other hand is a beatutiful thing, giving up is better than receiving and it’s enjoyable to give and give up and the other benefits too by getting their needs met! I feel better…

By: Lin

Lin — Sat, 26 Apr 2008 03:34:04 +0000

Oh yes, but eventually the wife reverts to manipulation to get her way. It is almost subconscious for her to do this. It keeps her as a little girl manipulating ‘daddy’ to get her way. It really sets up some sick situations. I have heard it too many times: Make him think it was his idea. As if he is some idiot you cannot have a grown up conversation with.

How many sermons have I heard the pastor say, the husband is the head and the wife turns the neck. See, the affirmation for her to manipulate? Or how about this one: Anything with 2 heads is a freak. (Meaning both husband and wife cannot be in charge) Well, if we take that one as it is meant, then the wife is a freak because she has 2 ‘heads’: Her husband and Jesus. That is why I think this understanding of ‘head’ as authority makes no sense in relation to these passages.

I read something from a young Christian man out of seminary not long ago where he told someone that if he had a job offer in another state, he would ask for his wife’s input BUT if she did not want to go, he HAD to make the decision for the good of the family because they did not have time to wait on prayer together for the offer was in two weeks. the answer he got was quite funny. This guy told him that if he did not have a job, his wife would probably start packing before he finished the sentence. However, if she did not want to go, he would be a fool to force the issue because driving to another state solo is lonely. :o)

These young guys think it all sounds so pious but it really reeks of pride and arrogance. Where is the ONE FLESH UNION in this thinking?

By: Cheryl

Cheryl — Sat, 26 Apr 2008 03:04:28 +0000

That is a really good point, Don. She knows that she is going to lose anyway since he has the tie-breaking vote. Makes for a helpless feeling for sure.

By: Don Johnson

Don Johnson — Sat, 26 Apr 2008 01:50:15 +0000

A non-egal man is also kept immature by getting his way when he really wants it or thinks it is the best or whatever. He always has the ability to vote twice and break the tie and even if this is not used explicitly, it can be used implicitly to get what he wants, as his wife knows she will lose eventually, so why even oppose it, as it will make no difference in the end.