Comments on: Does head mean boss when it is connected to the body? http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/11/03/does-head-mean-boss-when-it-is-connected-to-the-body/ This blog is for dialogue on the issue of women in ministry and the freedom for women to teach the bible in a public setting. It is also for questions and answers on our DVD entitled "Women in Ministry: Silenced or Set Free?" This 4 DVD set answers the hard passages of scripture that seem to restrict women's ministry. Sat, 11 Oct 2008 12:17:28 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: Cheryl http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/11/03/does-head-mean-boss-when-it-is-connected-to-the-body/#comment-1856 Cheryl Mon, 05 Nov 2007 15:48:21 +0000 http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/11/03/does-head-mean-boss-when-it-is-connected-to-the-body/#comment-1856 Kerryn, This is the big thing that is the downfall of complementarians. Not only are they inconsistent, but they have no "rule book" to be consistent with. There is no "Christian Talmud" that gives all the things women can do and the things that women cannot do. CBMW has certainly tried to created a "Christian Talmud" but they have failed in that they still see many things as gray and even they do not have any clear-cut answers. In the meantime, the inconsistency grows. Kerryn,
This is the big thing that is the downfall of complementarians. Not only are they inconsistent, but they have no “rule book” to be consistent with. There is no “Christian Talmud” that gives all the things women can do and the things that women cannot do. CBMW has certainly tried to created a “Christian Talmud” but they have failed in that they still see many things as gray and even they do not have any clear-cut answers. In the meantime, the inconsistency grows.

]]> By: Kerryn http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/11/03/does-head-mean-boss-when-it-is-connected-to-the-body/#comment-1855 Kerryn Mon, 05 Nov 2007 12:02:13 +0000 http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/11/03/does-head-mean-boss-when-it-is-connected-to-the-body/#comment-1855 Cheryl, as much as some try to separate 'headship' in marriage from the issues to do with 'women in [public] ministry', they are ultimately inextricably tied together. Either God has specific 'roles' for men and women, or he doesn't... if these so-called 'roles' are grounded in 'creation' as patriarchalists claim, then they surely cut across EVERY area of our life/being. I continually see the biggest challenge with the patriarchal stance as being their inconsistency on how they 'apply' this so-called equal (in value) but 'different' (in role) theology. ... looking forwards to what you will be posting on this topic. many thanks Kerryn Cheryl,

as much as some try to separate ‘headship’ in marriage from the issues to do with ‘women in [public] ministry’, they are ultimately inextricably tied together. Either God has specific ‘roles’ for men and women, or he doesn’t… if these so-called ‘roles’ are grounded in ‘creation’ as patriarchalists claim, then they surely cut across EVERY area of our life/being. I continually see the biggest challenge with the patriarchal stance as being their inconsistency on how they ‘apply’ this so-called equal (in value) but ‘different’ (in role) theology.

… looking forwards to what you will be posting on this topic.

many thanks
Kerryn

]]> By: tiro http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/11/03/does-head-mean-boss-when-it-is-connected-to-the-body/#comment-1854 tiro Mon, 05 Nov 2007 06:59:35 +0000 http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/11/03/does-head-mean-boss-when-it-is-connected-to-the-body/#comment-1854 Thank you very much. :) I really appreciate that. Thank you very much. :) I really appreciate that.

]]> By: Cheryl http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/11/03/does-head-mean-boss-when-it-is-connected-to-the-body/#comment-1853 Cheryl Mon, 05 Nov 2007 05:28:38 +0000 http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/11/03/does-head-mean-boss-when-it-is-connected-to-the-body/#comment-1853 Tiro, I will have to find my Talmud studies to get the quote and book/page number for you. It might take me some time to find it but I will look as I have time. Tiro,
I will have to find my Talmud studies to get the quote and book/page number for you. It might take me some time to find it but I will look as I have time.

]]> By: tiro http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/11/03/does-head-mean-boss-when-it-is-connected-to-the-body/#comment-1852 tiro Mon, 05 Nov 2007 04:05:44 +0000 http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/11/03/does-head-mean-boss-when-it-is-connected-to-the-body/#comment-1852 Do you have a reference for the statement on Jewish men who are circumcised going to heaven always. I'm doing a study in Romans and would love that information. Thanks Do you have a reference for the statement on Jewish men who are circumcised going to heaven always. I’m doing a study in Romans and would love that information.

Thanks

]]> By: Cheryl http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/11/03/does-head-mean-boss-when-it-is-connected-to-the-body/#comment-1850 Cheryl Mon, 05 Nov 2007 01:13:03 +0000 http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/11/03/does-head-mean-boss-when-it-is-connected-to-the-body/#comment-1850 Don, Yes, you are right in that being Jewish had as much to do with circumcision as it did with the blood line. In my reading in the Talmud I came across the Pharisee idea of hell. All uncircumcised men went to hell and no circumcised (Jewish) man went there. However if a Jewish did something really bad to his Jewish brother when he died in the afterlife he would have his foreskin sewed back on so that he could be sent to hell. I haven't done a research project yet on the paternity issue so I don't know first hand how or why they would go through the woman's line. It all sounds very interesting. Charis, It took me a long time to get to the issue of marriage regarding women in ministry. I originally didn't want to deal with it however it is so interconnected with the subject of ministry and it is used as a emotional argument to stop women from using their God-given gifts for the benefit of men, that I could not forever stay away from the issue of marriage. i.e. if you let women minister in church then men will no longer have a loving/obedient wife at home and they will have lost all "control". It is about time that we seriously talk about what "control" that God has ordained and if he has ordained it, to what extent does it exist? Should be fun as we pull back the blinds and have a peek behind the source of these traditions and what is and isn't scriptural. I hope that we can do this with much gentleness and grace yet without sidestepping any truth from scripture. Don,
Yes, you are right in that being Jewish had as much to do with circumcision as it did with the blood line. In my reading in the Talmud I came across the Pharisee idea of hell. All uncircumcised men went to hell and no circumcised (Jewish) man went there. However if a Jewish did something really bad to his Jewish brother when he died in the afterlife he would have his foreskin sewed back on so that he could be sent to hell.

I haven’t done a research project yet on the paternity issue so I don’t know first hand how or why they would go through the woman’s line. It all sounds very interesting.

Charis,
It took me a long time to get to the issue of marriage regarding women in ministry. I originally didn’t want to deal with it however it is so interconnected with the subject of ministry and it is used as a emotional argument to stop women from using their God-given gifts for the benefit of men, that I could not forever stay away from the issue of marriage. i.e. if you let women minister in church then men will no longer have a loving/obedient wife at home and they will have lost all “control”. It is about time that we seriously talk about what “control” that God has ordained and if he has ordained it, to what extent does it exist? Should be fun as we pull back the blinds and have a peek behind the source of these traditions and what is and isn’t scriptural. I hope that we can do this with much gentleness and grace yet without sidestepping any truth from scripture.

]]> By: Don Johnson http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/11/03/does-head-mean-boss-when-it-is-connected-to-the-body/#comment-1849 Don Johnson Mon, 05 Nov 2007 00:57:41 +0000 http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/11/03/does-head-mean-boss-when-it-is-connected-to-the-body/#comment-1849 Marriage and divorce (the other side of the coin) is one of my focus study areas so I am looking forward to what you have to say also. Marriage and divorce (the other side of the coin) is one of my focus study areas so I am looking forward to what you have to say also.

]]> By: Charis http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/11/03/does-head-mean-boss-when-it-is-connected-to-the-body/#comment-1848 Charis Mon, 05 Nov 2007 00:32:47 +0000 http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/11/03/does-head-mean-boss-when-it-is-connected-to-the-body/#comment-1848 I'm so excited you are doing a series on marriage! :) I’m so excited you are doing a series on marriage! :)

]]> By: Don Johnson http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/11/03/does-head-mean-boss-when-it-is-connected-to-the-body/#comment-1845 Don Johnson Sun, 04 Nov 2007 22:04:43 +0000 http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/11/03/does-head-mean-boss-when-it-is-connected-to-the-body/#comment-1845 In my understanding, Timothy was not considered Jewish, that is why he was circumcized in Acts 16, so he would be. As a God fearing gentile, he could only get up to the gentile barrier in the temple area; but as a Jew he could get to where any Jewish male could get. IIRC, Jews switched from tracing thru males to tracing thru females due to the high number of rapes and therefore lack of assurance of paternity. In my understanding, Timothy was not considered Jewish, that is why he was circumcized in Acts 16, so he would be. As a God fearing gentile, he could only get up to the gentile barrier in the temple area; but as a Jew he could get to where any Jewish male could get.

IIRC, Jews switched from tracing thru males to tracing thru females due to the high number of rapes and therefore lack of assurance of paternity.

]]> By: Greg Anderson http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/11/03/does-head-mean-boss-when-it-is-connected-to-the-body/#comment-1844 Greg Anderson Sun, 04 Nov 2007 20:26:44 +0000 http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/11/03/does-head-mean-boss-when-it-is-connected-to-the-body/#comment-1844 Consider also the biological machinery of human reproductive systems. Sperm is cheap whereas eggs are dear. How is this significant? Does it have any bearing on the promise of Messiah to Eve? We know that Jesus' blood was not tainted by human male DNA at conception. Is there a connection to what transpired at the beginning other than the patently obvious? Consider also the biological machinery of human reproductive systems. Sperm is cheap whereas eggs are dear. How is this significant? Does it have any bearing on the promise of Messiah to Eve? We know that Jesus’ blood was not tainted by human male DNA at conception. Is there a connection to what transpired at the beginning other than the patently obvious?

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