Comments on: Paul and the “head” from 1 Corinthians 11 http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/05/16/paul-and-the-head-from-1-corinthians-11/ This blog is for dialogue on the issue of women in ministry and the freedom for women to teach the bible in a public setting. It is also for questions and answers on our DVD entitled "Women in Ministry: Silenced or Set Free?" This 4 DVD set answers the hard passages of scripture that seem to restrict women's ministry. Sat, 11 Oct 2008 12:15:59 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: Cheryl http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/05/16/paul-and-the-head-from-1-corinthians-11/#comment-1316 Cheryl Sun, 30 Sep 2007 11:43:05 +0000 http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/05/16/paul-and-the-head-from-1-corinthians-11/#comment-1316 Michael, I am very encouraged that you were blessed by my teaching! Michael,

I am very encouraged that you were blessed by my teaching!

]]> By: Michael Terran http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/05/16/paul-and-the-head-from-1-corinthians-11/#comment-1313 Michael Terran Sun, 30 Sep 2007 08:21:31 +0000 http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/05/16/paul-and-the-head-from-1-corinthians-11/#comment-1313 To Cheryl, Thank you for taking me a man under your wing, your one of my spiritual mothers in The Faith. When you speak it's all of the spirit, very simple even a little child can understand. I pray that the Lord raises up more women who have the gift of teaching. An as a man I humble myself under your Godly Truthful Teaching of scripture,Happily! My spirit is happy that I found the right understand of these important scriptures thanks to yourself. The Lord is truly lending/guiding you greatly. I love how you were able to tie in what Paul said in Philippians 3:1 ! It all just flowed like living water, The Lord has used a woman to refresh my spirit! Let this be recorded for all of History! Amen! To Cheryl,

Thank you for taking me a man under your wing, your one of my spiritual mothers in The Faith. When you speak it’s all of the spirit, very simple even a little child can understand. I pray that the Lord raises up more women who have the gift of teaching. An as a man I humble myself under your Godly Truthful Teaching of scripture,Happily! My spirit is happy that I found the right understand of these important scriptures thanks to yourself. The Lord is truly lending/guiding you greatly. I love how you were able to tie in what Paul said in Philippians 3:1 ! It all just flowed like living water, The Lord has used a woman to refresh my spirit! Let this be recorded for all of History! Amen!

]]> By: Cheryl http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/05/16/paul-and-the-head-from-1-corinthians-11/#comment-643 Cheryl Sun, 20 May 2007 03:18:59 +0000 http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/05/16/paul-and-the-head-from-1-corinthians-11/#comment-643 Hi Kerryn, Lots of questions and very good ones at that! These questions will make a great post so that all can read not just those who read the comment section. I will have to put a bookmark here, though, because I am at a family reunion and won't be back home for a couple more days. Looks like 1 Corinthians 11 is going to blossom out to a few more posts that I had intended, but that is great! Keep the questions coming and watch for my answers shortly as I can carve out the time. Ah, the family calls right now so I am off to play games with the family. Warmly, Cheryl Hi Kerryn,

Lots of questions and very good ones at that! These questions will make a great post so that all can read not just those who read the comment section. I will have to put a bookmark here, though, because I am at a family reunion and won’t be back home for a couple more days. Looks like 1 Corinthians 11 is going to blossom out to a few more posts that I had intended, but that is great! Keep the questions coming and watch for my answers shortly as I can carve out the time. Ah, the family calls right now so I am off to play games with the family.

Warmly,
Cheryl

]]> By: Zwagmeister http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/05/16/paul-and-the-head-from-1-corinthians-11/#comment-640 Zwagmeister Sat, 19 May 2007 04:18:46 +0000 http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/05/16/paul-and-the-head-from-1-corinthians-11/#comment-640 Oh dear - I apologise to all for my many typos above! writing with kids on my lap can cause challenges! hopefully it's vaguely cohesive and intelligible? sorry and thanks for your patience. K Oh dear - I apologise to all for my many typos above! writing with kids on my lap can cause challenges! hopefully it’s vaguely cohesive and intelligible?
sorry and thanks for your patience.
K

]]> By: Zwagmeister http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/05/16/paul-and-the-head-from-1-corinthians-11/#comment-639 Zwagmeister Sat, 19 May 2007 04:15:06 +0000 http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/05/16/paul-and-the-head-from-1-corinthians-11/#comment-639 Gidday Cheryl Can i pls ask you some qns and make a few observations for you to perhaps comment upon? what do you make of the singular 'a woman' in verse 3 and the pluaral 'every man'? I think that paul's statement in v 12 that EVERYTHING comes from God is crucial to the passage - especially if you hold to "head" as meaning 'source' or 'origin', v 12 is key. Can you clarify for me, are you actually claiming that the three 'pairs' of v 3 are referred back to in some way in v 12? or just that paul clariies the male-femle relationship one of interdependence with all originating from God? what do you make of the phrase "in the Lord"? i know some who use this phrase as a kind of 'spiritual' status in Christ, rather than applicable to ministry/ roles in the church body ...just as some argue Gal 3:28 is 'purely' salvation 'status'... I also believe that verse 7, where Paul says ,man is the image and glory of God, and ,woman is the glory of man, is the key to unlocking the meaning of the passage... Paul's argument is about glory and shame. Not about authority and hierarchy. (...but i am sure you will 'unpack' that for us shortly, right???!) further regarding v 3: what is interesting to also note is that paul does not explicitly refer to the 3 'pairs' again - only the 'pair' of man and woman is used. for example, if v 3 was the 'basis' for the entire passage, then surely Paul would have said that man is the glory of 'Christ' (not 'God') in v 7, to link back to v 3? why does paul introduce a thought in verse 3 - that man is the head of a woman... then basically 'reverse' or revoke his argument in v.12? What do you make of this? is this what he actually does in your opinnion? what about Paul's metaphorical use of 'kephale' (head) in Ephesians 1:10, 22; 4;15; 5:23 and Colossians 1:18; 2:10;19? can we assume that Paul is consistent or 'repeating' his use of 'head' in these other passages? is paul always consistent / repetitive in his teaching to 'different' churches/ recipients? (i haven't studied this at all, so just wondered what you think.) i could ask a million more qns - but i am sure you have a full palte already! i look forward to any comments you can make to my rambling thoughts. your teaching is always thought provoking! many thanks. (-: kerryn Gidday Cheryl

Can i pls ask you some qns and make a few observations for you to perhaps comment upon?

what do you make of the singular ‘a woman’ in verse 3 and the pluaral ‘every man’?

I think that paul’s statement in v 12 that EVERYTHING comes from God is crucial to the passage - especially if you hold to “head” as meaning ’source’ or ‘origin’, v 12 is key. Can you clarify for me, are you actually claiming that the three ‘pairs’ of v 3 are referred back to in some way in v 12? or just that paul clariies the male-femle relationship one of interdependence with all originating from God?

what do you make of the phrase “in the Lord”?
i know some who use this phrase as a kind of ’spiritual’ status in Christ, rather than applicable to ministry/ roles in the church body …just as some argue Gal 3:28 is ‘purely’ salvation ’status’…

I also believe that verse 7, where Paul says ,man is the image and glory of God, and ,woman is the glory of man, is the key to unlocking the meaning of the passage…
Paul’s argument is about glory and shame. Not about authority and hierarchy.
(…but i am sure you will ‘unpack’ that for us shortly, right???!)

further regarding v 3: what is interesting to also note is that paul does not explicitly refer to the 3 ‘pairs’ again - only the ‘pair’ of man and woman is used. for example, if v 3 was the ‘basis’ for the entire passage, then surely Paul would have said that man is the glory of ‘Christ’ (not ‘God’) in v 7, to link back to v 3?

why does paul introduce a thought in verse 3 - that man is the head of a woman… then basically ‘reverse’ or revoke his argument in v.12?
What do you make of this? is this what he actually does in your opinnion?

what about Paul’s metaphorical use of ‘kephale’ (head) in Ephesians 1:10, 22; 4;15; 5:23 and Colossians 1:18; 2:10;19? can we assume that Paul is consistent or ‘repeating’ his use of ‘head’ in these other passages?

is paul always consistent / repetitive in his teaching to ‘different’ churches/ recipients? (i haven’t studied this at all, so just wondered what you think.)

i could ask a million more qns - but i am sure you have a full palte already!
i look forward to any comments you can make to my rambling thoughts.
your teaching is always thought provoking!
many thanks.

(-:
kerryn

]]> By: Cheryl http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/05/16/paul-and-the-head-from-1-corinthians-11/#comment-637 Cheryl Sat, 19 May 2007 03:09:06 +0000 http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/05/16/paul-and-the-head-from-1-corinthians-11/#comment-637 TL, Great title! I like how you worded that! Lin, Thank you for your comments and encouragement! I welcome you here to learn and participate with us. Cheryl TL,

Great title! I like how you worded that!

Lin,

Thank you for your comments and encouragement! I welcome you here to learn and participate with us.

Cheryl

]]> By: Lin http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/05/16/paul-and-the-head-from-1-corinthians-11/#comment-635 Lin Sat, 19 May 2007 01:19:51 +0000 http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/05/16/paul-and-the-head-from-1-corinthians-11/#comment-635 Hi Cheryl, I know this is a typo but it may help to correct it for new readers: 1 Corinthians 1:11 However, in the Lord, neither is woman independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. It is 1 Corin 11:11 I have just discovered your teaching and am overwheled by it! I am digging into scripture. Thank you for all your hard work and for your gracious and loving manner with those who disagree with you. Hi Cheryl, I know this is a typo but it may help to correct it for new readers:

1 Corinthians 1:11 However, in the Lord, neither is woman independent of man, nor is man independent of woman.

It is 1 Corin 11:11

I have just discovered your teaching and am overwheled by it! I am digging into scripture. Thank you for all your hard work and for your gracious and loving manner with those who disagree with you.

]]> By: TL http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/05/16/paul-and-the-head-from-1-corinthians-11/#comment-634 TL Thu, 17 May 2007 22:42:37 +0000 http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/05/16/paul-and-the-head-from-1-corinthians-11/#comment-634 Very good "pictology". And you didn't beat around but got right to it. > I call this the chronological listing of honorific orgins. :) Very good “pictology”. And you didn’t beat around but got right to it. > I call this the chronological listing of honorific orgins. :)

]]> By: Martin Willemoes Hansen http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/05/16/paul-and-the-head-from-1-corinthians-11/#comment-633 Martin Willemoes Hansen Thu, 17 May 2007 14:46:29 +0000 http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/05/16/paul-and-the-head-from-1-corinthians-11/#comment-633 Nice little article it reminds me of the question "which came first the chicken or the egg", now I see clearly the answer, it was God who was first, then the chicken then the egg, to follow the above in analogy. Jesus is wonderful! Your brother in Christ, Martin Willemoes Hansen Nice little article it reminds me of the question “which came first the chicken or the egg”, now I see clearly the answer, it was God who was first, then the chicken then the egg, to follow the above in analogy.

Jesus is wonderful!
Your brother in Christ,
Martin Willemoes Hansen

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