We have to change and become like little children, if we want to enter the kingdom of heaven. Whoever wants to be first must be a slave.

I am not an egalitarian or a complemetarian. I am simply a follower of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob; the Word made flesh Yeshua the messiah and as He commanded Mary Magdalene, I will go and tell my brothers the good news.

We must shake the dust from our feet.

I agree with your assessment of CBMW’s options. It is a very humbling experience to admit that you are wrong especially since CBMW’s purpose is to bring the complementarian view back into the church and into Christian marriages. If they were to admit that they are wrong, then their whole organization would be for nothing. The fact that they are getting more militant as the years go by is a sign that they see themselves fighting a losing battle. Their security blanket is being pulled away from them and their reaction is an attack against those whom they perceive are pulling the blanket. I think this is positive in one way - in that their attack on egalitarians has become so intense that even other hardened complementarians are admitting that they have gone too far. I have heard from former complementarians who are not yet fully in the egalitarian camp but who have become quite sickened by the rhetoric and militant attacks coming from those within CBMW. They are their own worst enemy.

In contrast, Jesus commanded us to love one another and to be kind and caring to our brothers and sisters in Christ. When CBMW goes so far as to equate their brothers and sisters in Christ as unregenerate sinners because they differ on the non-essentials, they show the fruit of their movement. When they respond in this way, we can see that their doctrine does not lift up Jesus and his commandment to us and many people’s eyes are being opened daily.

Don, I hope you enjoy the DVD’s. I am confident you will find them challenging. I would love to hear your feedback when you have viewed the material.

Your humble attitude about being open to finding out where you still might not be right is so refreshing! I wish everyone were like you.

For me, I am always concerned that I might be wrong. I do not want to be and I try not to be, but I have been changed enough times by Christ to know that where I am right now still needs more changing.

P.S. I just ordered your DVD set, I am a member of CBE and going to their convention in August.

You know what is really sad? 50 years ago or so you could take all these arguments and replace the word WOMAN with NEGRO. Same spirit, different target. At least they aren’t debating whether or not we have souls.

The leaders in the charge against women (make no mistakes about this, they are AGAINST women) is the Southern Baptist Convention. The leadership of this group is filled with racist, biggotted leaders. I know. I went to an SBC college. They finally appologized for their stand on slavery and racism in the mid 1990’s. They are led by fundamentalists who truly belive American society went to hell when women were allowed to vote.

In the last update to the Baptist Faith and Message, their doctrinal statement, they removed a line that has been part of the Message since its initial printing. Freedom of conscience. No longer as a Southern Baptist are you allowed to disagree with the stated doctrine. No longer are you allowed to have an opinion on non-essentials.

You cannot speak in tongues and be a Southern Baptist. You cannot hold an egalitarian point of view and be a Southern Baptist. You can’t hold to any form of Arminian theology and be Southern Baptist (does anyone in their right mind REALLY believe in double predestination?!)

You know what makes me maddest of all? Lottie Moon was a phenomenal SBC missionary. Their missions fundraising drive is named after her. She would not be allowed on the mission field today by the SBC. But it’s okay for her name to be involved to milk the masses of their money.

This is the same spirit of prejudice that caused the SBC to hold to slavery and teach that African Americans have no soul (this was taught in the South well into the 1970’s). The complimentarian camp is not bringing scholarly debate to the table. They are coming with the same load of demonically motivated garbage that they brought to the race debate. They are twisting scripture to protect their vested interests. There is no more honesty in them now than there was when they opposed Martin Luther King.

1. Speaking words when God injects them into their mouths - the rest of the time they simply bray (or is that the clanging of a cymbal that I hear?)

2. Having their jawbone used to kill Philistines.

Other than that, they don’t really bring anything to the discussion worth listening to. Their spiritual decendent is that nutcase in Kansas, Fred Phelps - God hates everyone but me. You must agree with my doctrine or you are going to hell.

Jesus never, ever said that men would know us by our doctrine. He said that people would know his disciples by their love for one another. Can’t you just FEEL the love from CBMW? Maybe I should throw the souls back into hell that have been saved in my meetings - after all, they can’t REALLY be saved if a WOMAN preached the gospel to them, now CAN they?

You know what is really sad? 50 years ago or so you could take all these arguments and replace the word WOMAN with NEGRO. Same spirit, different target. At least they aren’t debating whether or not we have souls.

This is the same stand that Jehovah Witnesses take against Christians.

I think he is correct that it is a spiritual battle, but it is not egals that are siding with the enemy of our souls it is they who would so dare to accuse the brethren falsely.

Thanks for stopping by and providing your comments.

You said:

“Moore does not mean (nor does anyone one else I know who uses the terms “spiritual warfare”) that this is an in-house war against you or those of a feminist position. … He is not saying he views you as the enemy. He is saying that he believes a spiritual enemy has you (and the church at large) in his sights.”

I certainly appreciate your opinion but I heartily disagree with you. Moore is not saying that Satan has us in his sights, but rather that Satan has us. This is why he says that this is a battle for the gospel. He does not believe that one can have the true gospel unless one accepts the complementarian position. In this way, it is a fight against egalitarians because egalitarians according to Moore are not preaching the true gospel.

Every egalitarian that I know of would not say that complementarians are preaching a false gospel. None of them would say that complementarians must repent of their belief in complementarianism or they are cannot be saved. Egalitarians do not make this an issue of the gospel and therefore although they can passionately disagree with complementarians, they can still consider them brothers and sisters in Christ.

However CBMW and Moore do not hold to this charitable position. They say that there must be change, there must be repentance and egalitarians must accept the complementarian position or they are not preaching the gospel and salvation depends on the complementarian position. Moore says that women are not necessarily lost who are egalitarian. What does that mean? It means that a woman who teaches the bible to men still has time to repent and if she repents she will not be lost.

I asked CBMW if a woman teaches the bible to men all her life and does not repent of this “sin”, will she go to hell? Their answer was consistent with the position that Moore presented. It is an issue of salvation. I was told that if a woman did not repent of teaching the bible to men by the time that she dies, then she must not have been saved to begin with, and yes, unsaved people go to hell.

When Moore and CBMW say that we are not believing or preaching the gospel, then they are charging us with heresy. Distorting the gospel of Christ is a serious offense and the charge of such a sin is a serious matter. Did Paul say that a distortion of the gospel is not a fight against the false teachers but only a fight against Satan? Absolutely not. Paul handed Hemenaeus and Alexander over to Satan. (1 Timothy 1:20) One cannot be a brother or sister in Christ and be guilty of distorting the gospel.

This is a serious charge and a very serious matter. But the gospel has nothing to do with complementarianism. The gospel is about who Jesus is, his death and resurrection and the price that he paid for our sin. Those who make a secondary issue to be a source of division in the body of Christ by attaching their side of this controversial issue to the gospel are those “who spreads strife among brothers” (Prov. 6:19). This is not a matter of complentarians fighting Satan. It is a matter of complementarians dividing and separating Christian brothers and sisters over a side issue. We have been told in scripture not to judge unfairly, and to be told as egalitarians that we are outside the gospel and in danger of being lost because we do not accept complementarianism is an unfair judgment. Anytime we add something to the gospel and make the acceptance of a secondary issue a requirement for salvation, we are treading in dangerous waters. I believe that these brothers in Christ are sincere in what they are doing, but they are sincerely wrong. I also believe that Jesus disciplines those he loves because using the gospel as a tool to force others to accept your opinion on a side issue is not an acceptable Christian practice.

Let’s continue talking and dialoguing as brothers and sisters in Christ, but I appeal to complementarians as my dear brothers in Christ, to turn away from making this an issue of salvation and the gospel.