Comments on: Does “husband of one wife” disqualify women from being a Pastor? http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/01/28/does-%e2%80%9chusband-of-one-wife%e2%80%9d-disqualify-women-from-being-a-pastor/ This blog is for dialogue on the issue of women in ministry and the freedom for women to teach the bible in a public setting. It is also for questions and answers on our DVD entitled "Women in Ministry: Silenced or Set Free?" This 4 DVD set answers the hard passages of scripture that seem to restrict women's ministry. Sat, 11 Oct 2008 12:22:49 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: Truthseeker http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/01/28/does-%e2%80%9chusband-of-one-wife%e2%80%9d-disqualify-women-from-being-a-pastor/#comment-3183 Truthseeker Tue, 22 Apr 2008 20:56:13 +0000 http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/01/28/does-%e2%80%9chusband-of-one-wife%e2%80%9d-disqualify-women-from-being-a-pastor/#comment-3183 I just read in David Instone-Brewer's book, Divorce and Remarriage in the Church, on page 187, that "In New Testament times, those phrases (man of one woman or woman of one man-I Tim. 3:2, and I Tim. 5:9) meant someone who was faithful."  He footnotes with a reference stating that the Greek 'monandros' or its Latin equivalent 'univera' is common on funeral inscriptions in praise of someone who was faithful to her husband.  References Craig Keener, ...And Marries Another (Peabody, Mass.; Hendrickson, 1991, pp. 92-93.) I just read in David Instone-Brewer’s book, Divorce and Remarriage in the Church, on page 187, that “In New Testament times, those phrases (man of one woman or woman of one man-I Tim. 3:2, and I Tim. 5:9) meant someone who was faithful.”  He footnotes with a reference stating that the Greek ‘monandros’ or its Latin equivalent ‘univera’ is common on funeral inscriptions in praise of someone who was faithful to her husband.  References Craig Keener, …And Marries Another (Peabody, Mass.; Hendrickson, 1991, pp. 92-93.)

]]> By: Cheryl http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/01/28/does-%e2%80%9chusband-of-one-wife%e2%80%9d-disqualify-women-from-being-a-pastor/#comment-2257 Cheryl Tue, 29 Jan 2008 04:02:05 +0000 http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/01/28/does-%e2%80%9chusband-of-one-wife%e2%80%9d-disqualify-women-from-being-a-pastor/#comment-2257 Dennis #13, Polygamy was allowed in the Jewish tradition and we know that there were Jews in Corinth because their law was appealed to in 1 Cor. 14:34-35. The oral law of the Jews allowed for polygamy. Jeb 65a says A man may marry as many wives as he pleases. Another on of the rabbis limited the number to four (Jeb 44a) The one agreement that all the Rabbis had was that there was to be no polygamy for the High Priest (Joma 13a). Everyman's Talmud by Abraham Cohen says "While there can be no doubt that among the masses polygamy was practiced, there is no record of any Rabbi having resorted to it." Dennis #13,

Polygamy was allowed in the Jewish tradition and we know that there were Jews in Corinth because their law was appealed to in 1 Cor. 14:34-35. The oral law of the Jews allowed for polygamy. Jeb 65a says A man may marry as many wives as he pleases. Another on of the rabbis limited the number to four (Jeb 44a) The one agreement that all the Rabbis had was that there was to be no polygamy for the High Priest (Joma 13a). Everyman’s Talmud by Abraham Cohen says “While there can be no doubt that among the masses polygamy was practiced, there is no record of any Rabbi having resorted to it.”

]]> By: Cheryl http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/01/28/does-%e2%80%9chusband-of-one-wife%e2%80%9d-disqualify-women-from-being-a-pastor/#comment-2078 Cheryl Tue, 01 Jan 2008 07:32:15 +0000 http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/01/28/does-%e2%80%9chusband-of-one-wife%e2%80%9d-disqualify-women-from-being-a-pastor/#comment-2078 Michael, There is no restriction on women regarding if they are not the only wife of their husband. Hanna was blessed by God in giving birth to Samuel and she was the barren wife of a man who had another wife. In those days a woman had no choice. If a man desired to take another wife he did not consult with her or get her permission. He did as he pleased. She could not divorce him because he took another wife. Therefore a wife who had a husband who had multiple wives was not guilty of having being immoral. Paul did not have a restriction on her in this regard. I would think it doubtful that such a woman would be in a place of seeking servanthood in the church by overseeing the flock, yet it certainly could still be possible. The rule would be that if scripture does not forbid someone from serving the body of Christ, then they should be allowed. Paul did not forbid Gentiles from being overseers even though the early church originally only had Jewish leadership. Since Gentiles were not forbidden to serve the congregation, then they should be allowed. The same would go for women who were married to polygamists. It is only the men who were the ones who themselves took on the additional wives who were held responsible and kept from being the spiritual examples to the congregation. That is my two cents anyway :) Michael,
There is no restriction on women regarding if they are not the only wife of their husband. Hanna was blessed by God in giving birth to Samuel and she was the barren wife of a man who had another wife. In those days a woman had no choice. If a man desired to take another wife he did not consult with her or get her permission. He did as he pleased. She could not divorce him because he took another wife. Therefore a wife who had a husband who had multiple wives was not guilty of having being immoral. Paul did not have a restriction on her in this regard. I would think it doubtful that such a woman would be in a place of seeking servanthood in the church by overseeing the flock, yet it certainly could still be possible. The rule would be that if scripture does not forbid someone from serving the body of Christ, then they should be allowed. Paul did not forbid Gentiles from being overseers even though the early church originally only had Jewish leadership. Since Gentiles were not forbidden to serve the congregation, then they should be allowed. The same would go for women who were married to polygamists. It is only the men who were the ones who themselves took on the additional wives who were held responsible and kept from being the spiritual examples to the congregation.

That is my two cents anyway :)

]]> By: Michael Terran http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/01/28/does-%e2%80%9chusband-of-one-wife%e2%80%9d-disqualify-women-from-being-a-pastor/#comment-2076 Michael Terran Tue, 01 Jan 2008 04:49:12 +0000 http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/01/28/does-%e2%80%9chusband-of-one-wife%e2%80%9d-disqualify-women-from-being-a-pastor/#comment-2076 Cheryl Quote "A polygamist could be blameless if he came to Christ after he was already a polygamist, but Paul ruled that such a one would not be a good spiritual example. He could be a Christian, but not a leader" Now the man could not be a leader. But what about the women (The Wifes)? No right, because there not the only wife? So the Husband and His Wifes could not be in leadership right? I guess my question is about the wifes (The Women). The women/wifes too were included in this as well, right? If she is not the "only" wife then she couldn't be a leader. Cheryl Quote

“A polygamist could be blameless if he came to Christ after he was already a polygamist, but Paul ruled that such a one would not be a good spiritual example. He could be a Christian, but not a leader”

Now the man could not be a leader. But what about the women (The Wifes)? No right, because there not the only wife? So the Husband and His Wifes could not be in leadership right? I guess my question is about the wifes (The Women). The women/wifes too were included in this as well, right? If she is not the “only” wife then she couldn’t be a leader.

]]> By: Cheryl http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/01/28/does-%e2%80%9chusband-of-one-wife%e2%80%9d-disqualify-women-from-being-a-pastor/#comment-1788 Cheryl Tue, 30 Oct 2007 18:45:24 +0000 http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/01/28/does-%e2%80%9chusband-of-one-wife%e2%80%9d-disqualify-women-from-being-a-pastor/#comment-1788 Dennis, I have access to the books now, it is just a matter of finding them and finding the references. It will take some time because of what is on my plate right now, but I think that this would be very helpful to post here. The historical references are a very important consideration. I can't tell you exactly when I will get the references up but if you have chosen to be notified about the addition of comments, then you will get an email. It probably would be good to do a specific blog article on the evidence as well. Right now I am in heavy research project which will be part of a DVD teaching on the Trinity so I will squeeze in what I can. Blessings! Cheryl Dennis,
I have access to the books now, it is just a matter of finding them and finding the references. It will take some time because of what is on my plate right now, but I think that this would be very helpful to post here. The historical references are a very important consideration. I can’t tell you exactly when I will get the references up but if you have chosen to be notified about the addition of comments, then you will get an email. It probably would be good to do a specific blog article on the evidence as well. Right now I am in heavy research project which will be part of a DVD teaching on the Trinity so I will squeeze in what I can.

Blessings!
Cheryl

]]> By: Dennis Farrell http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/01/28/does-%e2%80%9chusband-of-one-wife%e2%80%9d-disqualify-women-from-being-a-pastor/#comment-1779 Dennis Farrell Tue, 30 Oct 2007 16:32:56 +0000 http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/01/28/does-%e2%80%9chusband-of-one-wife%e2%80%9d-disqualify-women-from-being-a-pastor/#comment-1779 Cheryl, Thank you for the insight, clarity and revelation you bring. Re: your response (#7 above) to David's questions "Do you have historical resources that show polygamy was practiced throughout the Roman Empire or in Ephesus specifically?" and " What are the documents that show the allowance of polygamy in the Jewish community?"; you'd stated your research books w/ the references weren't available to you at that time. I also wondered David's questions, so I wanted to find out if your situation or their availability has changed enough to find the references in question. Again, thank you and God bless you. Den Cheryl,
Thank you for the insight, clarity and revelation you bring. Re: your response (#7 above) to David’s questions “Do you have historical resources that show polygamy was practiced throughout the Roman Empire or in Ephesus specifically?” and ” What are the documents that show the allowance of polygamy in the Jewish community?”; you’d stated your research books w/ the references weren’t available to you at that time. I also wondered David’s questions, so I wanted to find out if your situation or their availability has changed enough to find the references in question. Again, thank you and God bless you.
Den

]]> By: Don Johnson http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/01/28/does-%e2%80%9chusband-of-one-wife%e2%80%9d-disqualify-women-from-being-a-pastor/#comment-923 Don Johnson Sun, 26 Aug 2007 22:46:55 +0000 http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/01/28/does-%e2%80%9chusband-of-one-wife%e2%80%9d-disqualify-women-from-being-a-pastor/#comment-923 The point is that the term "one-woman man" was a "buzz phrase" that meant someone who was faithful to their one spouse (assuming they had one). This is why it can apply to both men and women when found on a tombstone in Ephesus. Pagan women were expected to be faithful, but pagan men were not. The reverse phrase "one-man woman" is also in 1 Tim in discussing widows. We know women could not be polygamous in any Roman controlled area. The point is that the term “one-woman man” was a “buzz phrase” that meant someone who was faithful to their one spouse (assuming they had one). This is why it can apply to both men and women when found on a tombstone in Ephesus.

Pagan women were expected to be faithful, but pagan men were not.

The reverse phrase “one-man woman” is also in 1 Tim in discussing widows. We know women could not be polygamous in any Roman controlled area.

]]> By: Cheryl http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/01/28/does-%e2%80%9chusband-of-one-wife%e2%80%9d-disqualify-women-from-being-a-pastor/#comment-757 Cheryl Fri, 20 Jul 2007 17:12:44 +0000 http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/01/28/does-%e2%80%9chusband-of-one-wife%e2%80%9d-disqualify-women-from-being-a-pastor/#comment-757 Hi Don, Yes, I do agree with you as well. A faithful leader needs to be faithful in his marriage by not being a womanizer (if they are a man) or not being flirtatious (if they are a woman). I tend to think that this would be included in Paul's saying that they must be "above reproach" but it certainly could be inferred by "husband of one wife" too. Hi Don,

Yes, I do agree with you as well. A faithful leader needs to be faithful in his marriage by not being a womanizer (if they are a man) or not being flirtatious (if they are a woman). I tend to think that this would be included in Paul’s saying that they must be “above reproach” but it certainly could be inferred by “husband of one wife” too.

]]> By: Don Johnson http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/01/28/does-%e2%80%9chusband-of-one-wife%e2%80%9d-disqualify-women-from-being-a-pastor/#comment-755 Don Johnson Fri, 20 Jul 2007 12:49:51 +0000 http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/01/28/does-%e2%80%9chusband-of-one-wife%e2%80%9d-disqualify-women-from-being-a-pastor/#comment-755 I agree that non-polygamy is a part of the specification for an elder. In my understanding, Jesus clarified (correctly interpreted Torah) that marriage was designed for one man and one woman. The idea of being a faithful spouse means more than just not committing adultery, it means not being flirtatious, etc. Like what the country song means by "one-woman man". I do not think I am disagreeing with anything you wrote, just clarifying my understanding. I agree that non-polygamy is a part of the specification for an elder. In my understanding, Jesus clarified (correctly interpreted Torah) that marriage was designed for one man and one woman.

The idea of being a faithful spouse means more than just not committing adultery, it means not being flirtatious, etc. Like what the country song means by “one-woman man”.

I do not think I am disagreeing with anything you wrote, just clarifying my understanding.

]]> By: Cheryl http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/01/28/does-%e2%80%9chusband-of-one-wife%e2%80%9d-disqualify-women-from-being-a-pastor/#comment-753 Cheryl Fri, 20 Jul 2007 02:15:33 +0000 http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/01/28/does-%e2%80%9chusband-of-one-wife%e2%80%9d-disqualify-women-from-being-a-pastor/#comment-753 I wouldn't think that "faithful spouse" would quite measure up since I am sure that a man who has four wives would consider himself a "faithful spouse". As long as he is married to all four, and wasn't having sex outside his marriages, he would have been thought to be "faithful". The high priest wasn't allowed to be faithful to four wives. He had to be the husband of one wife. Of course faithfulness in everything including your marriage is key, but not allowing faithful polygamists to serve as an example to the congregation would seem the thought here. "Faithful" and "polygamy" just don't mix. I wouldn’t think that “faithful spouse” would quite measure up since I am sure that a man who has four wives would consider himself a “faithful spouse”. As long as he is married to all four, and wasn’t having sex outside his marriages, he would have been thought to be “faithful”. The high priest wasn’t allowed to be faithful to four wives. He had to be the husband of one wife. Of course faithfulness in everything including your marriage is key, but not allowing faithful polygamists to serve as an example to the congregation would seem the thought here. “Faithful” and “polygamy” just don’t mix.

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